Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[BMWAF]

Have you seen ford vs Ferrari ??
Auto maker pissing contests are as old as automobiles

In motorsport, maybe but I guarantee you nobody at Toyota is losing sleep about a Nismo making an appearance.

I know Toyota have always said there were no plans to introduce a manual transmission.. blah, blah, blah. I firmly believe this was always a planned development and not a "reply" to anything - other than perhaps literally every car review bemoaning the omission.

Don't forget, PR is just a misspelling of BS.

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[zrk]

Have you seen ford vs Ferrari ??
Auto maker pissing contests are as old as automobiles

Yes. That movie was also set in a very different time. Ford was proving that in the dramatized version even. Money won. Money always wins.

 

[JOutterbridge]

Well good thing the turbos are so accessible on the new Z and cheaper since you get a discount for buying two.

Sadly they are integrated into the head/manifold so upgrading them will be very costly. Stock inducer size is like a 35mm that's why they dissappear above 4000RPM. Tunes for Nissans are cheap but paying 7 to 10k just to reach the stock fuel system 500whp limit is a little expensive:/

 

[wheeliedub]

Graph looks like shit, too.

It looks like the turbos are struggling to me lol. Too bad the q60s had issues with tuning upgraded turbos. I was super close to buying a red sport back 4 years ago… glad I didn’t lol

 

[BadOne]

 

[Loco38SUP]

I went to go see this one at a local dealership. Its a nice looking car in person and much smaller when you’re standing next to it.

But Nissan dropped the ball big time on performance and pricing. Many people are bailing on it and considering other options.

There is no way it stands a chance against the competition.

-RJM

 

[BMWAF]

I know this is petty but I can't stand that yellow.. heritage or no. If the Supra yellow was that colour I'd definitely be going any colour other than the yellow!

 

[Loco38SUP]

The best part is the 2022 BRZ that they tested was the automatic version, which is quite a bit slower than the manual version to begin with .

Man, the Z is looking more and more like a $50k+ pile of .

The stop sale for all automatics because of a possible bad transmission isn’t helping its case also. Its the biggest sports car flop of 2023.

It pisses me off because it was definitely a contender for a manual fun car for me.

-RJM

 

[J29DB03]

Now accepting offers?!? So it’s already gotten so bad they are adding OBO to the price?

 

[RenRed2]

Now accepting offers?!? So it’s already gotten so bad they are adding OBO to the price?

Overpaying for slower than Supra, but updated G37 LOL> Bad idea.

 

[digicidal]

Now accepting offers?!? So it’s already gotten so bad they are adding OBO to the price?

This market is just insane... I must have done something wrong with my investments during the pandemic... because I'd need about $20 million in disposable income before something like this would make any kind of sense! However, if no one ever fell for this shit... they wouldn't be able to do it... so there must be at least a few people that rich and that stupid running around.

I assume they don't have any GTRs for MSRP there... because it would seem like an absolute bargain in comparison!

 

[CSUfiend]

Ok, so the new Z may not be a Supra or even a GR86 around the track… but at least it can whoop a** when compared to a… 30 year old Mercedes SL500

fast forward to 23:08 mark for the Z’s surprise appearance on finally being able to gap something.. for once

 

[JoeDaMechanic]

Sadly they are integrated into the head/manifold so upgrading them will be very costly. Stock inducer size is like a 35mm that's why they dissappear above 4000RPM. Tunes for Nissans are cheap but paying 7 to 10k just to reach the stock fuel system 500whp limit is a little expensive:/

It was sarcasm on my part. You're replacing two turbos so it will definitely cost more. Secondly, those turbos are shoved in there and you'll probably need to drop the motor to replace them. Not as diy friendly as a single turbo swap on an inline 6. So a lot of people will be paying a shop to do that.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Thought this one was posted already but looks new as of today.

Still reading it between meetings, but unsurprisingly they prefer the Supra

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/t...vs-2022-toyota-gr-supra-comparison-test.1427/

The '80s are back, baby! Kate Bush is still running up a hill, people are unironically wearing Oakley sunglasses, Hyundai unveiled a concept car that looks just like the DeLorean Group B race car that never was, and Top Gun: Maverick was the summer's runaway box office hit. Our collective unconscious lust for all things '80s now extends into MotorTrend's pages as we pit the new-for-2023 Nissan Z against a 2022 Toyota GR Supra, two Japanese sports cars that decades ago roamed our nation's streets.

Intriguingly, Toyota does not build the Supra; BMW, its partner in the project, does. The new Supra is in fact the hardtop version of the quite pleasant BMW Z4. So aside from body panels, there isn't much Toyota about the car save for tuning. As for the new Z—Nissan dropped the numeric part of the car's name—it is a greatest-hits collection of Nissan and Infiniti parts. The FM chassis, for example, . The big questions: Is the Z just a nostalgia play, tugging at the heartstrings and fattening wallets of Generation X and Y? Or is there something more there? Is it as good as the Supra?

First thought: Both cars could look better than their predecessors. The 2014 Toyota FT-1 concept, which previewed the eventual production Supra's design, was a stunner, but it had to be shrunk around the reality of the Z4's hardpoints. The resulting car is proportionally off. That's a fancy way of saying the Supra looks stumpy.

You would never know by looking, but the Supra is actually 0.1 inch longer than the Z, and it's 0.4 inch wider, too. The Z, however, is 0.9 inch taller, which makes it look like the larger car. The Nissan is heavier, 3,597 pounds compared to the Toyota's 3,395, a fairly significant difference. More significant is that 57 percent of the Z's weight rests on its front wheels, whereas only 52 percent of the Supra's weight is up front. Both vehicles have 3.0-liter turbocharged six-cylinder engines, but the Nissan has two turbochargers—one for each half of its V-6—while the Supra's straight-six makes do with a single turbo. The additional turbo allows the Z to outpower the Supra, 400 hp to 382. That said, the Toyota produces more torque, 368 lb-ft versus 350. One caveat here: Since we first drove a Supra, we've institutionally suspected the engine produces more power than advertised. There might even be a dyno chart (or three) floating around on the internet that confirms our suspicions.

The less powerful Toyota hit 60 mph in 4.0 seconds in our instrumented testing, 0.3 second quicker than the Nissan. You might say the Supra is lighter and torquier, and the quarter mile is the real horsepower test. Guess what? The Toyota's lead continued at the end of 1,320 feet, covering the distance in 12.3 seconds at 114.7 mph versus 12.9 seconds at 107.6 mph. We must also mention we achieved the Z's numbers using a bottle of octane booster, because California's "premium" gasoline is only 91 octane, and Nissan recommended we do so. To get one idea of why we think the Supra's engine is underrated, take a look at the trap speed: The car was 7.1 mph faster with supposedly less horsepower.

When it was time to stop, the Toyota proved it has much better brakes in terms of both performance and feel. The Supra stopped from 60 mph in 101 feet; the Nissan managed a best distance of 111 feet. The Z's brake pedal isn't very easy to modulate, either, as it feels somewhat wooden and makes it difficult to tell where you are in relation to ABS engagement.

In contrast, the Supra's brake feel is quite good: You can easily stay out of the ABS and still find maximum braking. The Supra also bested the Z in terms of roadholding, pulling 1.04 g (average) on the skidpad compared to only 0.92 g. All of the above adds up to a big gap between the two cars in our figure-eight test: 25.0 seconds for the Nissan and 23.8 for the Toyota. A delta exceeding 1.0 second indicates these cars live in different performance classes.

SoCal's fantastically slithering and challenging Angeles Crest Highway might not represent the "real world" to the majority of people who buy these cars, but it's a nice, traffic-free road where we were able to fully examine these two classic nameplates. And by "nice," I mean "yeehaw!"

My feelings about both cars pretty much mirrored what our test team discovered at the track, but Brady felt a bit different.

"This Nissan platform's stability impresses me—decent grip and enough control through midcorner pavement imperfections to keep me pushing with no fear of punishment," he said. "The body moves around a bit but never feels out of sorts. Turn-in might not be razor sharp, but it's at least a proper Japanese steak knife (blame the tires), and the rear differential can put this new engine's power to the ground without kicking you sideways. However, Nissan's choice of retaining the old car's enormous traction control button and mechanical e-brake mean there's plenty of tomfoolery to be had if you seek it out."

For my money, I couldn't accept how much the Z squirmed around under braking, especially when compared to the Supra. Even a moderate pedal jab produced a rolling wave of chassis uncertainty. As Brady said (and as our track testing bore out), the Nissan simply delivered less grip than the Toyota did. Ultimately you have a car that doesn't hug the road all that well and shimmies under braking, and it doesn't inspire confidence at all. Better suspension damping and better tires would likely go a long way here, but when performing a comparison test, a car's bad attributes become inflated because you're always able to jump back into the other car and appreciate its better behavior. You're not going to notice this stuff about the Nissan during a normal real-life test drive, but the Z stumbles near its limits.

On the plus side, the twin-turbo V-6 really comes alive as it builds revs, something that lends the car a nice helping of character. The Nissan isn't as quick or as punchy as the Supra, but its engine is a joy and feels powerful once it climbs past 5,000 rpm. However, the nine-speed transmission is noticeably inferior to the Supra's eight-speed. "I was only impressed with the Nissan's transmission because I hadn't driven the 'BMW Toyota' yet," Brady said. "The ZF eight-speed is the better choice; it feels every bit as quick as some dual-clutch autos, and it delivers outstanding low-speed refinement." You just can't beat this transmission when it comes to torque-converter automatics. But the Z's twin-turbo V-6 feels capable of being alive at all times rather than only when in the upper rev range if Nissan would take a little time to rework the first 20 percent or so of the throttle map.

The Toyota Supra? It's not perfect, but it's pretty great to drive. With a superior gearbox, sharper steering, better brakes, and less weight to fight, the quicker Supra emerges from this contest as a better driver's car. "The Supra is without question the car I'd take to the track," Brady said. To his point, even if everything else were equal, the Toyota's better suspension damping deals with a bump almost immediately, whereas in the Z you feel like the springs and shocks are still rebounding from the previous jolt even as you get to the next one. It's easy to suspect the Nissan's unibody is more flexible than the Toyota's, a reasonable assumption when you remember the platform is two decades old. Hopefully, Nissan will address this area when it releases the eventual NISMO model. Extra bracing will be welcomed, but even with it, the Z might simply carry too much weight on its front tires.

All said and done, the Toyota Supra is a better sports car here than the slightly less expensive Nissan Z. We could point out the fact that the Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE costs less and is worlds better to drive than either (plus it's quicker than both in the quarter mile), but let's keep our eyes on the nostalgia prize. Both the Z and the Supra suffer from not having their respective manufacturers' full attention. This is obvious with the BMW-built Supra, less so in the Z until you attempt to drive it like a modern car and realize parts of it are quite old. It's tempting to be cute here and say something like, "Because these are nostalgia machines, an old platform is fine." But no. Instead, tilt your cap to the GR Supra for winning this comparison test while admonishing both Nissan and Toyota. Each can and should do better. Otherwise, when nostalgia for the 2020s rolls around 30 years from now, our professional descendants will be writing about two other brands' sports cars.

2ND PLACE: 2023 NISSAN Z

Pros

• A classic nameplate lives on
• Revvy engine
• Still has a handbrake lever

Cons

• Nose-heavy
• Brakes
• Body control

Verdict: Although no new modern sports car is ever a bad thing, we expected better dynamics from an icon like the Z.

1ST PLACE: 2022 TOYOTA GR SUPRA

Pros

• Sharp handling
• Punches above its weight
• Modern chassis

Cons

• Disproportionate looks
• A bit pricey
• Not a true Toyota

Verdict: A competent, fun to drive German sports car we wish was a true Japanese sports car.

 

[Sub-MkV]

I'm sick of the Supra catching negatives for being a BMW. I can understand if BMW was like Daewoo or one of the world's worst brands in quality and dynamically. Most of the same people that hate the BMW aspect of this car generally love BMW cars.

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