New owner maintenance opinions and advice??

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Gizzy_18

Gizzy_18

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My Blackstone report just came in. Looks like I’m off to a good start with this B58TU engine. I’m going to run another report at 5,000 miles to see if anything changed.

Stats:
- 2021 with June 2020 build date
- Hard engine break-in
- Dumped factory oil at 1200 miles and switched to Liqui Molly 5w-30
- 1800 miles on lab sample oil
- iDrive showing max oil level at all readings

-RJM

3CEE07F8-6B05-4EAB-AD88-8016C43AC5AE.jpeg
Awesome, thanks for the feedback! I’m doing mine soon, I will keep you guys updated.
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Tsuki

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I was planning on doing the oil change for my 2.0 at 5k miles (which is roughly 7 months) but the service rep also said to me today that the recommendation for the Supra is 10k miles or 1 year.
I haven't had any oil warnings nor I expect to have the infamous oil issues in the 2.0 but 10k miles also sounds excessive to me.

Paolo in the first reply is saying the longer the better on factory oil while others are replacing it much sooner. I'm really torn on what to do :dunno:
Here's the thing. A good synthetic oil doesn't care. It doesn't shear and lose viscosity as easily as a conventional oil, and technically, a slightly dirty oil actually lubricates and protects better. As long as you're not running hard on a race track in extremely high temperatures, driving in an extremely dusty environment, etc., your oil is fine to go the 10k.

Your real problem is the filter. Once it gets to the point where it's holding too many particulates to flow at a certain rate, your bypass valve opens. Of course - dirty oil flowing through your system is better than NO oil flowing, which is what would happen if the bypass wasn't there. These relatively new cartridge-type oil filters tend to be a bit bigger - so they can filter more particulates before they get to that point.

If it was practical to change just your oil filter every 5k, and leave the same oil, that would be a great plan for 10k oil changes. I'm hard on my car, and I don't want my engine to look like it has 250k when it's at 50k, so I'm changing my oil on a shorter interval, and I'm going to use a bit thicker of an oil - 5w30. I'm also in a hot climate, where we don't see temps below freezing very often, so I don't have any cold start concerns with the slightly thicker oil.

I read a number of years ago (I believe from bob the oil guy), that your oil protects your engine less in the first 100 miles as new, than it does in the last 100 miles before you change it, which is why people don't tend to change their oil at absurdly short intervals. Many people have the typical 3k mile oil change interval stuck in their heads, because a conventional oil will shear much more quickly, so that 30-weight oil you have in your car will shear to 20-weight in no time - so it makes sense for you to change the oil every 3k, if you're running conventional oil. Synthetic oil doesn't have as much of an issue with this, and a higher-quality synthetic oil will exhibit even greater shear resistance.

I know this has been a bit technical, and I'm certainly not an expert (just spouting things I've read from those who are!), but I hope this helps.

One last point, to the person who said that their dealer told them 5w30 will void their warranty: As long as you're running a BMW-certified oil, they would be hard-pressed to void your warranty. Just look for the proper certifications. In the case of 5w30, I believe most of the good oils carry BMW's LL01 certification.
 

BA9092

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One last point, to the person who said that their dealer told them 5w30 will void their warranty: As long as you're running a BMW-certified oil, they would be hard-pressed to void your warranty. Just look for the proper certifications. In the case of 5w30, I believe most of the good oils carry BMW's LL01 certification.
^^^This is what's holding back most people to switch, I think. Especially those who are still fully stock and are concerned about their warranty. :thumbsup:
 

Tsuki

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^^^This is what's holding back most people to switch, I think. Especially those who are still fully stock and are concerned about their warranty. :thumbsup:
Definitely.

To those people, I say: You do you. We don't need to worry about what your engine looks like at 50k miles, and you might not, either. If running the factory oil, and having the dealership do your oil changes, helps you sleep at night - so be it! At the end of the day, it's just a car. Weighing the advice of internet strangers against the advice of your trained dealership technician is scary business. Just know that a lot of the decisions they make with cars these days are the compromises made by engineers, to fit into the small box they need to, not decisions they made because they wanted to handle things a certain way.

There's absolutely no shame in going by the book. :thumbsup:
 

eastwest2300

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fellas,

I live in south florida where it never ever gets cold, im looking for oil recommendations for my '21 3.0. I've been a Mobil 1 fan my entire life. What are you guys thinking for us people in hot climates? Any insight would be great. Thanks guys.
 

RenRed2

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fellas,

I live in south florida where it never ever gets cold, im looking for oil recommendations for my '21 3.0. I've been a Mobil 1 fan my entire life. What are you guys thinking for us people in hot climates? Any insight would be great. Thanks guys.
The car was tested in hot and cold climates, so by default the oil was as well. Use what is recommended unless you are in a dirty, dusty environment, tracking extensively etc. You are under warranty so the specs matter for the oil to pass analysis if your engine fails or you have another mechanical related issue etc.

Ensure what you change to, if you change it meets the requirements found in the owners manual. Especially while you are under warranty.

Current synthetics, 0W-20 are not going to have a problem in the environment you are in.
 

suicidaleggroll

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fellas,

I live in south florida where it never ever gets cold, im looking for oil recommendations for my '21 3.0. I've been a Mobil 1 fan my entire life. What are you guys thinking for us people in hot climates? Any insight would be great. Thanks guys.
You do you, but I certainly wouldn't trust 0W20 in these engines in that environment. When you drain it it literally has the consistency of water, that's not an exaggeration, it splashes and everything. As has been mentioned multiple times before, that oil is recommended for emission reasons, not engine protection. Manufacturers have been doing this for years, it's well known, and there are a lot of cars out there that have a reputation for spinning bearings which it turns out are ultimately just due to using an oil that's too thin in order to meet emissions restrictions. Anyone who suggests you blindly use the manufacturer recommendation simply because "they're the manufacturer and they know best" is kidding themselves.

0W is only necessary if you're driving below 0F, and a 20 weight is only good up to maybe 80-90F (there are plenty of charts online, here is an example). 5W30 is a decent compromise. If you do a lot of aggressive driving in the summer and/or have modified the car and are pushing significantly more power, I might even move to a 5W40, but that's me.
 

RenRed2

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You do you, but I certainly wouldn't trust 0W20 in these engines in that environment. When you drain it it literally has the consistency of water, that's not an exaggeration, it splashes and everything. As has been mentioned multiple times before, that oil is recommended for emission reasons, not engine protection. Manufacturers have been doing this for years, it's well known, and there are a lot of cars out there that have a reputation for spinning bearings which it turns out are ultimately just due to using an oil that's too thin in order to meet emissions restrictions. Anyone who suggests you blindly use the manufacturer recommendation simply because "they're the manufacturer and they know best" is kidding themselves.

0W is only necessary if you're driving below 0F, and a 20 weight is only good up to maybe 80-90F (there are plenty of charts online, here is an example). 5W30 is a decent compromise. If you do a lot of aggressive driving in the summer and/or have modified the car and are pushing significantly more power, I might even move to a 5W40, but that's me.
Bearing spin was found to be a problem in the E92 M3 with thick oil. Do not advise a member under warranty to go outside spec under warranty 0w-20 or not. Spec matters and so does what the maker demands to maintain warranty. The first thing checked in my GTi in Germany when the #4 spark plug electrode failed and killed my engine was tune. The 2nd was an oil analysis showing my oil met the book specs. Failed at high speed on the Autobahn 4km from the dealer. 6 months left of warranty. So kid yourself all you want about what a maker resorts to when assessing your claims under warranty. 2012 motor would have cost me 9000Euros+ +. Thankfully I was not tuned and using a heavy non spec oil.

No engines are built to fail by design with a given oil when new. When did that theory take hold lol! Do you think Toyota and BMW want engines to fail on their recommended oil? Keep drinking.

Your penrite chart is hardly the bible. He lives in South Fl so 30C is about right most of the year for an average temp. He will not damage his engine with 0-20 and most oil analysis shows that here when posted. He might want to see what his oil temp is warm and during some spirited driving. Synthetics are soooo much stronger than rumor here.

You have zero proof of a definitive answer for him. His owners manual does and matters more than your advice. Unless he fits a severe use category he will not be damaging anything with 0W-20 or any other oil that meets spec per BMW.

Id like for you to talk to my oil engineer in France about the oils they design for Moto Gp and F1 lol. ON a good day its the consistency of water. 10W. There is so much more to this than your post you have no idea. He works for Total. I will be sending him this post for entertainment.

This is from a Canadian site - for AMSOIL which I have never used. The advice is sound overall with respect to 0W-20 and the history of its us.


Answer: Yes, 0W-20 is unquestionably safe for your engine. Manufacturers have been specifying 5W-20 and 0W-20 since the early part of the last decade and there is no evidence whatsoever that engine wear rates have increased. Engine designs and materials along with motor oil chemistry have made massive strides in the last 15 years, so engine wear has never been lower. The 5W-30 grade is rapidly being supplanted in new cars by 5W-20 and 0W-20. By the end of this decade, a new vehicle specifying 5W-30 will be a rarity. In fact, expect to see even lower viscosities like 0W-16 in the coming years.


Why are car makers suggesting thinner motor oils? Quite simply to optimize fuel economy. But this trend has gone on for long enough for us to conclude that there is no downside in terms of shorter engine life.


As for the second part of your question about substituting 5W-20 for the recommended 0W-20, we see absolutely no advantage to doing this. Let’s use the specifications of the AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-20 and 5W-20 to illustrate our point.


The industry standard for evaluating viscosity at operating temperature is the measured in “centistokes” at 100°C.


  • AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-20: 8.8 centistokes
  • AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-20: 8.7 centistokes

So therefore at operating temperatures, the 0W-20 and 5W-20 are virtually identical in terms of thickness or viscosity. The reason that the vehicle manufacturer opted for a 0W-20 oil is because it would offer a very slight improvement in terms of cold weather start-up protection.


Our daily driver calls for a 5W-20, but we opt for a 0W-20 for year-round use, just so that we have the best possible start-up protection. We see absolutely zero oil consumption between oil changes, even in scorching temperatures.


So the the bottom line is that you can rest assured that a quality 0W-20 motor oil will offer the utmost wear control. Enjoy your new truck and rest assured that it will be fine using 0W-20 motor oil.
 

suicidaleggroll

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Bearing spin was found to be a problem in the E92 M3 with thick oil. Do not advise a member under warranty to go outside spec under warranty 0w-20 or not. Spec matters and so does what the maker demands to maintain warranty. The first thing checked in my GTi in Germany when the #4 spark plug electrode failed and killed my engine was tune. The 2nd was an oil analysis showing my oil met the book specs. Failed at high speed on the Autobahn 4km from the dealer. 6 months left of warranty. So kid yourself all you want about what a maker resorts to when assessing your claims under warranty. 2012 motor would have cost me 9000Euros+ +. Thankfully I was not tuned and using a heavy non spec oil.

No engines are built to fail by design with a given oil when new. When did that theory take hold lol! Do you think Toyota and BMW want engines to fail on their recommended oil? Keep drinking.

Your penrite chart is hardly the bible. He lives in South Fl so 30C is about right most of the year for an average temp. He will not damage his engine with 0-20 and most oil analysis shows that here when posted. He might want to see what his oil temp is warm and during some spirited driving. Synthetics are soooo much stronger than rumor here.

You have zero proof of a definitive answer for him. His owners manual does and matters more than your advice. Unless he fits a severe use category he will not be damaging anything with 0W-20 or any other oil that meets spec per BMW.

Id like for you to talk to my oil engineer in France about the oils they design for Moto Gp and F1 lol. ON a good day its the consistency of water. 10W. There is so much more to this than your post you have no idea. He works for Total. I will be sending him this post for entertainment.

This is from a Canadian site - for AMSOIL which I have never used. The advice is sound overall with respect to 0W-20 and the history of its us.


Answer: Yes, 0W-20 is unquestionably safe for your engine. Manufacturers have been specifying 5W-20 and 0W-20 since the early part of the last decade and there is no evidence whatsoever that engine wear rates have increased. Engine designs and materials along with motor oil chemistry have made massive strides in the last 15 years, so engine wear has never been lower. The 5W-30 grade is rapidly being supplanted in new cars by 5W-20 and 0W-20. By the end of this decade, a new vehicle specifying 5W-30 will be a rarity. In fact, expect to see even lower viscosities like 0W-16 in the coming years.


Why are car makers suggesting thinner motor oils? Quite simply to optimize fuel economy. But this trend has gone on for long enough for us to conclude that there is no downside in terms of shorter engine life.


As for the second part of your question about substituting 5W-20 for the recommended 0W-20, we see absolutely no advantage to doing this. Let’s use the specifications of the AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-20 and 5W-20 to illustrate our point.


The industry standard for evaluating viscosity at operating temperature is the measured in “centistokes” at 100°C.


  • AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-20: 8.8 centistokes
  • AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-20: 8.7 centistokes

So therefore at operating temperatures, the 0W-20 and 5W-20 are virtually identical in terms of thickness or viscosity. The reason that the vehicle manufacturer opted for a 0W-20 oil is because it would offer a very slight improvement in terms of cold weather start-up protection.


Our daily driver calls for a 5W-20, but we opt for a 0W-20 for year-round use, just so that we have the best possible start-up protection. We see absolutely zero oil consumption between oil changes, even in scorching temperatures.


So the the bottom line is that you can rest assured that a quality 0W-20 motor oil will offer the utmost wear control. Enjoy your new truck and rest assured that it will be fine using 0W-20 motor oil.
You're right, deviating from the manufacturer's recommended oil is a risk when it comes to warranty work. He asked for insight, I gave him mine. Blindly telling him to do whatever the manufacturer recommends is another point of view, he deserves to hear both.

I don't care what they use in Moto GP or F1, those engines are designed to minimize friction and get as much power as possible, and they get rebuilt multiple times per year. Why on earth would you follow that advice for an engine that needs to last 100k+ miles?

Of course Toyota and BMW don't want their engines to fail, but are you at all familiar with CAFE regulations? It's not a decision between higher reliability vs higher mileage, it's a decision between higher reliability vs being legally allowed to sell the car in the first place. Obviously they choose the latter and deal with the fallout, because otherwise they wouldn't be selling anything. 0W20 is a compromise to meet emissions and mileage restrictions, it's not being recommended because it's the best choice for the engine.

Of course he fits a severe use category. What do you think a 400 HP 3L turbocharged car in 100+ degree weather is? In the oil world, this car is "severe use" right out of the gate, not to mention the people running 500, 600, 700+ horsepower with upgraded turbos, E85, etc. This isn't a Prius.

And why did you feel it was necessary to post such a large wall of text with AMSOIL's recommendations for a vehicle that isn't even remotely similar to ours? None of that advice applies. Want something that does apply?
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-oil-change-kit-5w-30-liqui-moly-11428583898-lm

New BMW's fitted with BXX series engines "Require" 0W-20 LL14FE+ Rated oils. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND using this spec! The levels of protection LL14FE provides are much lower than LL01. The new formulation LL14FE is mainly designed with CAFE ratings, EPA requirements and fuel mileage in mind, NOT OVERALL PROTECTION.
But again, both he and you can do whatever you like.
 
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SupraYYJ

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You do realize that the manual says you can run 5W30 or 5W40, right? It's just for "temporary use" and isn't officially recommended. I'd be surprised if Toyota was able to deny a warranty claim on that basis, but you're right, it is a risk.
No, the manual does not say that. The manual says you should use 0W20 C5 but can add up to a maximum of 1 quart of 0W30 API SL/SM/SN.

Like any manufacturer, Toyota will obviously deny an engine warranty claim if they learn you used an out-of-spec oil.

rtfm.png
 

suicidaleggroll

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No, the manual does not say that. The manual says you should use 0W20 C5 but can add up to a maximum of 1 quart of 0W30 API SL/SM/SN.

Like any manufacturer, Toyota will obviously deny an engine warranty claim if they learn you used an out-of-spec oil.
Yes, sorry I realized that after I posted and removed it
 

ToyoBMW

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I'm only going to Toyota for oil at the moment, I bought the Toyotacare service all the way to 4 years or 40k miles. I just want everything to be done correctly and documented during the warranty period up to 36k miles.

I just dropped my car off for it's second oil change at near the 2year mark with 3300 miles. Sometimes I wonder if the tech would just look at the mileage and skip the work, take a long lunch break or something. Then come back and say it's all completed. Thinking 3300 for a 2nd oil change is really excessive
 

eastwest2300

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The car was tested in hot and cold climates, so by default the oil was as well. Use what is recommended unless you are in a dirty, dusty environment, tracking extensively etc. You are under warranty so the specs matter for the oil to pass analysis if your engine fails or you have another mechanical related issue etc.

Ensure what you change to, if you change it meets the requirements found in the owners manual. Especially while you are under warranty.

Current synthetics, 0W-20 are not going to have a problem in the environment you are in.
Thank you for your insight.
 
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