News Update and Discussion on Next-gen A100 Supra

jm6k

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Ah I see. That's interesting. Probably why they introduced the 118hp hybrid model to get people ready for it.

IIRC, people were too busy complaining about how ugly it was and how there was no MT.
Exactly.




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MA617M

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First Supra without a manual.
First Supra an aluminum block.
First Supra with direct injection.
First e-diff Supra.
First 2 seat Supra.
First Supra with dual exhausts.
All of these firsts are a subject of the times, not the lineage.

Had they had this tech in 1978, the MA45 Supra would have had all of these (except the lack of rear seats)

I would still much prefer a BMW I6 than a Toyota V6. V6 sound like arse.\
 

justbake

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All of these firsts are a subject of the times, not the lineage.

Had they had this tech in 1978, the MA45 Supra would have had all of these (except the lack of rear seats)

I would still much prefer a BMW I6 than a Toyota V6. V6 sound like arse.\
I would take a bmw I6 over a V6 any day, look at what I drive. It’s more about if Toyota will do what it takes to meet their performance goals even if it goes against heritage.

[HYPOTHETICAL]

Let’s say Toyota wants a 500hp A90 and BMW won’t let them modify a B58 or use the S58. Does Toyota say “oh we are out of luck,” or “well we can just use our 500hp V35a-GTS even if it goes against heritage.”

[/HYPOTHETICAL]

At some point they will have to break heritage if they want to use their own motor and don’t produce I6s
 

KahnBB6

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So long as Toyota and/or Yamaha actually get involved in the engine co-development or revisions I also like the potential of the Mazda Skyactiv-X 2.5 and 3.0 inline sixes. Assuming the end result is a closed deck block, high flowing cylinder head, one or more turbochargers and an emphasis on customer tuneability.

Then the V35A-GTS is already known to have a lot of potential as an enthusiast performance engine.

It would also be cool if Toyota were to design their own new engine to use in all their upcoming RWD performance and enthusiast models similar to how many cars across the Toyota lineup shared variants of the 1JZ and 2JZ engines.
 

Dannyvandelft

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So long as Toyota and/or Yamaha actually get involved in the engine co-development or revisions I also like the potential of the Mazda Skyactiv-X 2.5 and 3.0 inline sixes. Assuming the end result is a closed deck block, high flowing cylinder head, one or more turbochargers and an emphasis on customer tuneability.

Then the V35A-GTS is already known to have a lot of potential as an enthusiast performance engine.

It would also be cool if Toyota were to design their own new engine to use in all their upcoming RWD performance and enthusiast models similar to how many cars across the Toyota lineup shared variants of the 1JZ and 2JZ engines.
Didn't Yamaha design those? Seems to me that using a sourced engine falls perfectly in line with heritage.
 

justbake

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Didn't Yamaha design those? Seems to me that using a sourced engine falls perfectly in line with heritage.
The head of the 1jz they did. And Toyota owns 1/3 of Yamaha (I could be wrong about the actual percentage) so it isn’t like it’s completely outsourced.
 

KahnBB6

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If Yamaha had any hand in the development of the TBD Mazda Skyactiv-X inline six engines it is news to me. I have not read anything attesting to that at all. To the best of my knowledge those Mazda I-6’s were 100% done by Mazda.

Now if there has been further development of that engine architecture in addition to Mazda’s own engineers it will be news to me.
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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All of these firsts are a subject of the times, not the lineage.

Had they had this tech in 1978, the MA45 Supra would have had all of these (except the lack of rear seats)

I would still much prefer a BMW I6 than a Toyota V6. V6 sound like arse.\
I wouldn't say a V6 sounds like ass. There are many V6 engines that sound amazing. The 3MZ-FE and 2GR-FKS are great examples of great sounding Toyota V6 engines. Alfa Romeo has historically made amazing V6 engines and it's no different in the Giulia and Stelvio Quadrifoglio. Mercedes-Benz has great sounding V6's in their AMG 43 series as well. Jaguar has a great sounding supercharged V6 too!

But the point is that an inline-six would be more convenient for an enthusiast because they're less complicated to work with and the balance of an inline-six is just a quality that fits the Supra.

@A70TTR I was wondering what you think of my original post. Do you think anything I mentioned is possible for Toyota to execute? I also forgot to mention if it does makes things better other than Toyota modifying the B58 engine they can also get Yamaha to do their magic on it as well don't you think?
 

F1 Silver Arrows

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If Yamaha had any hand in the development of the TBD Mazda Skyactiv-X inline six engines it is news to me. I have not read anything attesting to that at all. To the best of my knowledge those Mazda I-6’s were 100% done by Mazda.

Now if there has been further development of that engine architecture in addition to Mazda’s own engineers it will be news to me.
I'm pretty sure they get some financial and technical support from Toyota themselves as Mazda isn't that powerful enough to take on a major project like this.
 
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vb22

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Go straight to the end. Idk how legit this guy is but he said if the current Supra is a success that in 5 years the next Supra will have a in-house straight six and a manual.

 

2JZ-No-Sh*t

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^^^Nothing we haven't heard of before.

1) No ISF planned as far as I know and there are only external rumors about an IS500. The only reason the IS even got updated is because Lexus wants that model in the product stack, but ES and the SUVs are the focus and what sells.
2) No Sienna Prime is planned at this time afaik but it can support that system as you said. I actually worked on the new Sienna for a little while and they're awesome! Would be cool to have a PIH option there.
3) Not sure honestly, but one of the BMW guys said that's likely going to be a thing. But maybe the next Supra is already being developed in-house as a hybrid :D
 

AustinGRSupra

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https://leftlanenews.com/toyota/next-gen-toyota-supra-could-throw-tradition-out-the-window/

And further detail in the source article here (focusing much more on the reasons why the A90 wasn't developed totally in-house due to tightening global regulations):

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/why-toyota-didnt-build-its-own-supra/


This is a way off since the A90 has *just* been released for its first model year but a couple of things in Tetsuya Tada's speculation of what the eventual A100 will become as a radically different car concern and bother me:

1) I fully expect electrification either as a hybrid with any type of engine or just a full electric. No surprises there, by the time we actually get to the point that there is an A100 and the A90 ceases production.

but...

2) Why wouldn't it still be a coupe? That's what a Supra is. It has a distinctive identity and shape as a rear-drive coupe.

3) Why would it be autonomous? Further, how is that even supposed to make sense? What is the point of an autonomous-but-really-believe-me-I'm-still-driver-focused-and-built-to-engage-the-driver sports car? I am honestly having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of why a Supra or any sports car would be autonomous. What is the point of a fast and engaging driver's car that you can no longer go fast in or engage with as a driver?

Everything else related to the traditional drivetrain giving way to a hybrid gas-electric or full electric one is where all cars are going.

But I just don't get why a coupe sportscar can't exist by then or why anyone would want to buy it if they can't actually drive it themselves.

I know he's speculating and this is quite a number of years off but a next generation A100 Supra, despite being electric or electrified, shouldn't cease to be a very emotional coupe design that is very exciting to drive entirely by one's own hands BECAUSE one is driving it with their own hands. AND because it was engineered to satisfy the passionate driver that much.
Your argument about autonomous sports cars is exactly right. Check out the new book by Matthew Crawford, Why we Drive. It takes up the problem with autonomous cars and their effect on the joy of risk.
 

KahnBB6

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Your argument about autonomous sports cars is exactly right. Check out the new book by Matthew Crawford, Why we Drive. It takes up the problem with autonomous cars and their effect on the joy of risk.
I will pick up a copy and check it out, thanks!
 

justbake

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What is Mazda working on here? This is LFA level of chassis depending on what materials are used.

There’s really no way of an inline 6 fitting here, but they do have a patent for a drivetrain layout with a rotary or V engine attached to a hybrid motor at the flywheel and a transaxle or electric motors at the back. If the A100 were using this an inline 6 probably isn’t in the cards, but on the other hand I don’t see it using a sedan platform.

https://www.motor1.com/news/371755/mazda-rx-9-platform-patent-japan/

69f832ac152ef4fb1d97eded9557d8664ccdf2da_xlarge.jpg

EEvjK0nUcAEOWel?format=jpg&name=medium.jpg


Direct links to the patents for those interested. I recommend using Google Chrome to have it translated to English.

https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-123457
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-123460
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-151134
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-151131
 

mande110

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What is Mazda working on here? This is LFA level of chassis depending on what materials are used.

There’s really no way of an inline 6 fitting here, but they do have a patent for a drivetrain layout with a rotary or V engine attached to a hybrid motor at the flywheel and a transaxle or electric motors at the back. If the A100 were using this an inline 6 probably isn’t in the cards, but on the other hand I don’t see it using a sedan platform.

https://www.motor1.com/news/371755/mazda-rx-9-platform-patent-japan/

69f832ac152ef4fb1d97eded9557d8664ccdf2da_xlarge.jpg


Direct links to the patents for those interested. I recommend using Google Chrome to have it translated to English.

https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-123457
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-123460
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-151134
https://ipforce.jp/patent-jp-A-2019-151131
Google Patents provides a great translation tool for patents. Here are the links, download the PDFs to see the original document in Japanese.

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2019123457A/en?oq=JP2019-123457
https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2019123460A/en?oq=JP2019-123460
https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2019151134A/en?oq=JP2019-151134
https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2019151131A/en?oq=2019-151131

Edit: After taking a look at the figures. I agree, I don't see this being a FR platform, maybe mid-engined, but it also may be an EV/Hybrid. Maybe batteries in the center tunnel, but the front looks like it could house an electric motor, and the back looks like it could hold a gas engine, but who knows.

This other patent application not cited in the article looks like it fits in with the above patents, and provides context to the powertrain (https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2019165611A/en?oq=JP2019165611A). Looks like a four cylinder with a hybrid system. Looks like the gas engine is in the middle of the car too (i.e., behind the front struts). If this ends up being the RX-9, people will try because it is a four cylinder, but this power train looks very impressive. An affordable hybrid sports car would be amazing.

Attached is a representative figure from the application.

Time to read how this powertrain works!

Screen Shot 2020-07-03 at 1.33.51 PM.png
 
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