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Discussion in 'General Automotive & Other Vehicle Talk' started by Villa Jonny, Feb 1, 2017.
my cheap ass would probably still go with the base model.
I totally respect this viewpoint, and I agree with it in alot of situations, however with sports cars I think that people probably value brand/nameplates alot more, especially with sports cars.
"Value" of a car is still often subjective because time has shown us that it's very difficult to make a car do everything perfectly. For example, if you were to ask which of the big 3 US sports cars provides the best value, even then, you'd have to specify what matters to you. If you want strict hp per dollar, you're probably going to get a Dodge Challenger, if you value handling, maybe the Camaro, if you value good comfort and what I'd say the most daily driveable, you'd probably choose the Mustang. And that's assuming you have no brand bias whatsoever. Not to mention there's tons of options/trims for these cars alone.
Not trying to outright discredit your position or discourage you from buying the Z, but I think it's hard to objectively quantify value, when value itself is a variable for most people. For me the most important thing in "value" is 1) can you actually afford it and 2) is it what you want? As always, I'm glad that a new Z is coming because it's another car that isn't focused on self-driving, electrification, or some other non-performance factor.
Sorry for long post, but I just felt that it's important to consider that sports cars are not easy to boil down into various checkboxes and that I think it's totally fine to value brand/nameplate so long as you aren't bashing other options on the market for simply being "Not my brand"
^Likewise, I respect everyone's choices. Yes and no, sales of the Cayman dropped pretty bad when the Supra arrived on the scene despite it having the P badge. I think the Supra was a much better buy that the base 2.0 Cayman. Cheaper, two more cylinders, and sounds way better.
To keep things short, if Nissan offers the base 300hp with a manual for $40k or less I'm most likely going to pick it over the $43k 2.0 auto only Supra.
So far I'm not too excited about the styling. I've never been a fan of the overt retro-throwback look, but will continue to hold out.. That said, a turbo, RWD, manual absolutely has my interest piqued.
And I 100% agree that the 2.0 Supra is not a good buy. Definitely would go with the Z over the 2.0 Supra if I could absolutely not stretch for the 3.0
It depends how the car drives, what is the weight, how is the sitting position, the steering feel, the balance, in what way power is delivered just to name a few. So what if its manual, 300hp and cheaper if it will be worse in those areas, or weights more? I'll gladly pay more for superior car in my eyes (Supra). Power can be gained easily, balance not.
Besides, 3.0 here costs 50% more than 2.0. 300hp ver Nissan will prob be still cheaper than 2.0 but power and gearbox is not what makes the sports car, its the overall package. And if its styled like that on render from BestCar its a no-no for me, it looks old already, Supra kills it with look totally. If it looked like on this render below thats a different story.
A better buy is subjective, for me I dont see the point going for 4cyl. 718 if sum1 can get Alpine A110S as a sports car here for the same price, which is superior for me personally. Yet 718 sells more.
I'll keep an eye on Z news till spring, maybe will wait for May release, maybe will got for Supra (probably). We shall see.
The Z looks ok but then again those are renderings with odd looking dimensions. I liked the old 70's Datsun to the 90's Nissans because they had a very simple design. Just like the Supra, I'll hold all judgement until I see it in person, walk around the exterior, sit in it, smell the interior, start it up, test drive and see how the car drives and handles.
I believe this car will be Nissan's saving grace if indeed the price is what is rumored and rolled off the Nissan factory. If it has a 2 versions, hopefully a manual and has proper sports car specs then it'll be a favorite over the Supra.
Latest post from Carmaker1 regarding the Z.
Geez, what a bunch of drama at Nissan. Carlos Ghosn is a piece of shit. Now wonder why Nissan's sports (except for the R35) have suffered in the post 90's.
GT Content always posts a bunch of trash. Bleh.
Also, regarding the stuff that Carmaker1 posted, this just reinforces my view of why Toyota is still a better manufacturer and always leads the way in performance, reliability, technology, and quality. Simply put, Toyota always had their shit together when it came to product planning and just had a way more competitive lineup whereas Nissan was almost becoming bankrupt twice.
Nissan and Infiniti were once badass brands that had a lot of respect and cachet. Nowadays, the former is considered the brand that you buy if your credit rating is garbage, and the latter is a luxury brand that's in the shadow of its former self, ignored and neglected.
As for the Z, I don't expect it to get even close to the Supra in terms of performance. However I do wish that the lower variants of the GR Supra had beefier engines so they can cover all bases in terms of competitiveness. It would definitely help as the Z is going to cut costs and undermine the GR Supra in overall price. I still think that Toyota won't be hurt as much and will continue to forge on to the A100 Supra project after the run of the A90 GR Supra is over.
The new Z already sounds compromised.. Hope they do not rush the production and ending up with QC problems. Not sure if a company like that can come up with a worthy sports car.
It's funny when he was bashing the Supra in pre-production then his tune changed when the commercial leaked. Nissan had a shitty CEO who couldn't see the value when it was brought to the table. It's very unfortunate but perhaps this new Z can be the breath of fresh air for Nissan, now that Carlos is gone.
A little off topic but why do you call it A90, A100? It was never the chassis code like the previous Supras.
While Toyota used the "A90" code for promotional and marketing materials for the fifth generation Supra, a reference to the A40–A80 model and chassis codes used for previous generation Supras, the fifth generation Supra uses BMW naming conventions. The fifth generation Supra actually uses a J29 series code with DB model codes.
He also loves to spread a load of misinformation, like he did in this video AGAIN.
To answer your other question, I always prefer to call it the A90 and the A100 because that's what a lot of Toyota enthusiasts and people within Toyota themselves call it. You can notice that they ignore the BMW naming conventions and as do I.
Even if the Z outsells the Supra, Nissan/Infiniti still have a massive uphill battle to get out of this hole long-term. As F1 mentioned, Nissan/Infiniti brand reputation has absolutely tanked over the past decade. They need to prove their worth again, and that's not easy when Toyota/Honda already have the market cornered for the sedan market. Throw covid on top of that and it's even more difficult.
I didn't realize how much damage Carlos had done to Nissan.