Potential buyer with some concerns

[drillhead]

Hey everyone, I've been in the market for a dedicated fun car and was generally looking at anything in the $30-70k range. There’s not a lot in the range that isn’t American and I had kind of written off the Supra for a handful of reasons, but I had a chance to test drive one at a local dealership and was pleasantly surprised (also, they're willing to sell @ MSRP and while I'm a cheap bastard this seems decent in the current car market).

However, there's obviously a limit as to what I can determine from a short test drive without making a salesman sweat too much. I wanted to ask for some feedback from owners with some HPDE experience on a few things that concern me:

-Regarding the zf 8-speed, I used to be in the “manual only” camp but was surprised with how awesome the zf-8 is. I’m a bit nervous to settle with one because of a few accounts I’ve read of autos doing things like shifting mid-corner randomly. I’ve also spent a fair amount of time with the GM/Ford 10-speeds which did a lot of scary things like randomly jerk/shift out of 3rd gear mid-corner (granted it’s GF/Ford so I expect crap). I know the manual supra is somewhat confirmed but I would actually prefer the zf-8 if its behavior is consistent. Does the zf-8 doing anything unexpected in manual mode particularly?

-I understand the Supra’s rear end is generally considered to be “lively”. I’ve read a lot of mixed accounts on the car having a “bump-steer” problem. Is this overrated and still prevalent on the 2021+ models? Or is this something I’m going to chase fixing with thousands in suspension parts/alignment etc?

-TC and stability control. The folks from Apex Nürburgring (along with many others, forum posts and so on) made a huge deal over the Supra having some dangerous behavior and switching on TC/Stability randomly mid-corner etc. I’ve experienced similar behavior in some cars (VW) where stability likes to engage on my local track’s karussel feature and attempt to shoot me out of the top of the banked turn. Is this still a problem?

I really do appreciate any feedback. I’m mostly trying to determine if this this car is going to work out for me without spending several thousand on suspension or performing warranty voiding ECU/electronics modifications for things that drive me insane in the first few months.

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[underdonk]

Congrats on the impending fun car! I was in the same boat and had all the same concerns as you. It was a tough choice between a Mustang GT PP2, Cayman GT4, and the Supra. I know that's a weird list. I've owned my '21 for about a year now and drive it during the nice weather on the street and track/autocross it.

The ZF8 is a phenomenal transmission. It's really is. I wanted a manual as well and was glad I chose the Supra after living with it for a while. It's faster and smarter than I am on the track. Especially so if you code in Sport+ mode. This does, I've found, make the shifts harsher. Nothing that will upset the car in a corner, but it's not buttery smooth in that mode. I do prefer it for track work, regardless. The only "glitch" I've found in manual mode is that if you wait to shift until redline (when the car is past peak power anyways), it will significantly delay a shift and run to the rev limiter. Others may be able to chime in and tell me I'm crazy, but I've read similar accounts on here. Just shift earlier, right? May not be the fastest way on the track, and sucks when you shift, and the car continues to hit the rev limiter and upset the car, shifting a short time later. It's an odd thing.

The Supra does have a very lively rear end. Getting an alignment (even to factory specs) after delivery of the car will help. However, don't expect it to be tame. I still think Toyota built the thing as a drift car at heart. In any event, it's just a dynamic of how the car drives that I needed to adjust to on the track. Alignment, tires, and sway bars will help tame this more. It's not dangerous in any way like I've read some reviewers state in articles as long as you know how to drive a short wheelbase, powerful car, with some turbo lag. I've experienced much harsher snap oversteer in 911's. It's just something you need to be cognizant of. I've never experienced any "bump oversteer" that has been mentioned in some of the reviews (though this seemed to be more of an issue in the '20s).

Never had an issue with the TC doing weird things, but when I'm pushing, it's usually all the way off. Even when on (or half on as you may find out), it's always done what I expected. I'm personally not concerned with it's function when I'm pushing or puttering around on the street.

I'll also say, go drive a Mustang GT PP2 if you can find one. Phenomenal car and fast on the track. Very fast with a little bit of work. Almost bought one. Also much more forgiving than the Supra. Good luck and let us know what you choose!

 

[Bassoonytoon]

Hey - welcome to the community.

I’ll start by saying I’m not an expert but was in a similar situation. This was the only car that’s ever taken me more than a few days to decide on. I was looking at Camaros, Corvettes, 718’s, etc. I had also written off the Supra but after seeing some 2021 reviews, I decided to look into them more.

I have not experienced any issues with the transmission. It really is a great unit and if you tune in Sport+ with Bimmercode it’s really perfect for spirited driving.

I’ve only tracked the car once but did not experience the bump steer issues. However, there is some bump steer when really pushing it (so I’ve heard) on 2021+ but it is supposedly better than the 2020’s.

I think this video best sums up the driving experience on the track (start at 2:30). Thomas is a great driver and is very honest in his reviews.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

If you are looking to have fun at the track and just enjoy the car then the Supra will be great. If you are looking to go as fast as you can with as little effort as possible, then maybe a Porsche or even a Camaro 1LE might fit better. I haven't had any issues with weird shifts and I shift around the 6k mark.

That said I never had an issue in manual mode in a 10 speed mustang around a track either, but only 2 sessions.

About the traction control. I have turned it off completely at the drag strip, twice when i launched with bad wheel spin and the car get a little sideways it would turn on for some reason. At the track i just press the button once I don't hold it down until stability control disables and all. I was kinda use to this with my Mustang though, even fully turned off it would turn itself back on unless you unplug a diagnostic plug by the air filter (the dyno plug) i wish the Supra had something like that.

 

[XtremeMaC]

While I've no document proof for you, FYI, I believe those who had their TC/VSC come back on, turned it off below 40mph. I always turned it off after reaching 40mph and I don't remember it ever coming back.. I don't know if any special maneuvers, or combo of failures trigger this..
For good measure, it's a good idea to turn off safety features if you don't want VSC kicking in. (lane dept asst, auto brake, etc.)

 

[drillhead]

I'll also say, go drive a Mustang GT PP2 if you can find one. Phenomenal car and fast on the track. Very fast with a little bit of work. Almost bought one. Also much more forgiving than the Supra. Good luck and let us know what you choose!

Thanks for the response, I did actually own a 2016 GT with performance pack but went back to a Miata after a couple years (I know, weird jump) because it just wasn't what I wanted. The mt-82 6-speed at the time was giving me a lot of problems.

I actually test drove a Mustang Mach 1 yesterday which was awesome with the power increase and tremec 6-speed but it's just not the right car for me. It's a blast but just doesn't feel very "connected" to the road. I also don't see the car being worth basically the same as the supra. It's at best a $45k car to me....

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[Bassoonytoon]

Thanks for the response, I did actually own a 2016 GT with performance pack but went back to a Miata after a couple years (I know, weird jump) because it just wasn't what I wanted. The mt-82 6-speed at the time was giving me a lot of problems.

I actually test drove a Mustang Mach 1 yesterday which was awesome with the power increase and tremec 6-speed but it's just not the right car for me. It's a blast but just doesn't feel very "connected" to the road. I also don't see the car being worth basically the same as the supra. It's at best a $45k car to me....

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I also came from Miatas - an NB and an NC. They’re great cars and what sold me on the Supra was that it was closest to the Miata in terms of driving experience (aside from maybe the 718).

The Supra is better in every way but not in a way that feels “different.” Just better. I was very worried the car would feel heavy but it really doesn’t in most situations. I was also worried I would miss the manual (I’ve had a manual since I got my license almost 20 years ago) but I definitely don’t. In fact, I find myself wishing my 86 (my daily driver and also a manual) had the Supra’s automatic.

Ultimately though, this is all subjective. Good luck in your decision - honestly there are so many great cars out there I’m sure you won’t be disappointed in whatever you choose.

 

[BadOne]

I would echo what everyone else is saying here.

The Supra is about as good as it gets for the 60K market.

Honestly my biggest gripe on the Supra is the window visibility for daily driving.

I find myself getting behind cars at the light because I don't feel like ducking my head down to see when it turns green.

 

[romanLegion9574]

-Regarding the zf 8-speed, I used to be in the “manual only” camp but was surprised with how awesome the zf-8 is. I’m a bit nervous to settle with one because of a few accounts I’ve read of autos doing things like shifting mid-corner randomly. I’ve also spent a fair amount of time with the GM/Ford 10-speeds which did a lot of scary things like randomly jerk/shift out of 3rd gear mid-corner (granted it’s GF/Ford so I expect crap). I know the manual supra is somewhat confirmed but I would actually prefer the zf-8 if its behavior is consistent. Does the zf-8 doing anything unexpected in manual mode particularly?

I haven't had any issues when in sport mode on the track. It'll hold the gear. I guess if you were near redline and gave it throttle, it might upshift, but I haven't had a corner to really see if that applies. As for manual mode, you're shifting gears. It'll downshift if you drop too low in the rev range, but it hasn't upshifted on me.

-I understand the Supra’s rear end is generally considered to be “lively”. I’ve read a lot of mixed accounts on the car having a “bump-steer” problem. Is this overrated and still prevalent on the 2021+ models? Or is this something I’m going to chase fixing with thousands in suspension parts/alignment etc?

Yes it's lively. It's been too long since I've been to the local track that hasn't been repaved recently (plenty of bumps), so I don't recall too much about any bump steer, if any, that I noticed. You'll probably be looking at wider tires to go on the track, and maybe a more race-oriented compound as well. The PSSes will get extremely greasy quite quickly, and might be better suited for a short autoX where track tires won't get warm in time. An alignment is definitely worth it. A lot of people say that the toe is pretty poor from factory. You will need to buy suspension components if you want to adjust front camber. Lastly, there is a fair bit of body roll, so sway bars will probably be worth it as well. That can also help reduce some of the liveliness based on your settings.

-TC and stability control. The folks from Apex Nürburgring (along with many others, forum posts and so on) made a huge deal over the Supra having some dangerous behavior and switching on TC/Stability randomly mid-corner etc. I’ve experienced similar behavior in some cars (VW) where stability likes to engage on my local track’s karussel feature and attempt to shoot me out of the top of the banked turn. Is this still a problem?

I'm not fully aware what the people at Apex saw. I can say traction and stability control will kick in if the car is sliding or wheelspinning excessively; it's very reactive, so you'll know the car is sliding, not just beginning to give. Also, a short press of the TC button only turns traction off; stability stays on. To turn it all off, you have to long press the TC button. I haven't had any experiences of stability kicking in at the carousel on the Ridge.

 

[underdonk]

If you are looking to have fun at the track and just enjoy the car then the Supra will be great. If you are looking to go as fast as you can with as little effort as possible, then maybe a Porsche or even a Camaro 1LE might fit better. I haven't had any issues with weird shifts and I shift around the 6k mark.

I don't know why I always forget about the 1LE. Definitely a great option in that price range. I've never driven one personally (wasn't interested in it while I was looking for a fun car), but have only heard good things about it with the exception of the visibility issues... which of course is a common problem in this type of car, including our beloved Supra.

Thanks for the response, I did actually own a 2016 GT with performance pack but went back to a Miata after a couple years (I know, weird jump) because it just wasn't what I wanted. The mt-82 6-speed at the time was giving me a lot of problems.

I actually test drove a Mustang Mach 1 yesterday which was awesome with the power increase and tremec 6-speed but it's just not the right car for me. It's a blast but just doesn't feel very "connected" to the road. I also don't see the car being worth basically the same as the supra. It's at best a $45k car to me....

Gotcha - so you've done the Mustang thing. I actually went from a Miata to a BMW M3, so it's not that uncommon of a jump! A Miata of any generation (the current generation especially so) are awesome sports cars, more power than anyone needs on the street, and plenty to have fun with on the track. I did notice the same thing you did about the Mustang re: it feeling "connected" to the road. People complain about the same thing with the Supra - something I think it gets from its BMW DNA - but IMO it's better than the Mustang.

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