Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[Guff]

He's either biased as hell, or Nissan paid quite a bit.

Man y'all really out here thinking that every reviewer is paid when they don't agree with you lmfao. Get out of your echo chambers, there are blue skies outside.


Haven't driven the new Z yet, but I think its pretty much fact that the Supra is disconnected driving experience when compared to more driver's focused cars. Steering feel and feedback is marginal at best and the car is absolutely set up to oversteer on transition. Doesn't diminish the fact that it's an absolutely fantastic package, especially for the money. Chassis has tremendous rigidity, and the powertrain blows almost every competitor out of the water (and yes, we can say Thanks BMW for that). By the way, many of you who haven't owned MKIVs don't realize that even the A80's hydraulic steering rack was shit for the time. Over-assisted and way too slow, genuinely one of the lowest points of the car. The suspension was also very under-damped, which made it an absolute menace on fast transitions. The Mazda RX-7 absolutely had it beat in all of those aspects. Doesn't diminish the fact that the Supra was a fantastic overall car.

The GR86 is slower and will always be slower in every metric compared to the Supra, but I 1000% would rather be in the GR86 on a track day, or even a backroad. It is just that much more connected and rewarding of a driving experience, and is so neutrally balanced that its always approachable. And just like how there's no reasonable amount of money you can put into a GR86 to make it as capable as a Supra, there's no reasonable amount of money that you can put into a Supra to make it as good of a driver's car as the GR86.

The Z seems like it falls in the middle of those things. It's an improvement on dated architecture which makes it not as fast compared to an ultra-modern platform like the Supra, but also makes it inherently more visceral than what CLAR can provide. I'll have to drive one soon to verify that, but it makes perfect sense.

Word of advice for everyone: Go drive everything, don't worry too much what other people think about what you like. I'm gonna go drive some Hyundai N cars now, not matter how much the internet cries about it.

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[Supraboi7]

Man y'all really out here thinking that every reviewer is paid when they don't agree with you lmfao. Get out of your echo chambers, there are blue skies outside.


Haven't driven the new Z yet, but I think its pretty much fact that the Supra is disconnected driving experience when compared to more driver's focused cars. Steering feel and feedback is marginal at best and the car is absolutely set up to oversteer on transition. Doesn't diminish the fact that it's an absolutely fantastic package, especially for the money. Chassis has tremendous rigidity, and the powertrain blows almost every competitor out of the water (and yes, we can say Thanks BMW for that). By the way, many of you who haven't owned MKIVs don't realize that even the A80's hydraulic steering rack was shit for the time. Over-assisted and way too slow, genuinely one of the lowest points of the car. The suspension was also very under-damped, which made it an absolute menace on fast transitions. The Mazda RX-7 absolutely had it beat in all of those aspects. Doesn't diminish the fact that the Supra was a fantastic overall car.

The GR86 is slower and will always be slower in every metric compared to the Supra, but I 1000% would rather be in the GR86 on a track day, or even a backroad. It is just that much more connected and rewarding of a driving experience, and is so neutrally balanced that its always approachable. And just like how there's no reasonable amount of money you can put into a GR86 to make it as capable as a Supra, there's no reasonable amount of money that you can put into a Supra to make it as good of a driver's car as the GR86.

The Z seems like it falls in the middle of those things. It's an improvement on dated architecture which makes it not as fast compared to an ultra-modern platform like the Supra, but also makes it inherently more visceral than what CLAR can provide. I'll have to drive one soon to verify that, but it makes perfect sense.

Word of advice for everyone: Go drive everything, don't worry too much what other people think about what you like. I'm gonna go drive some Hyundai N cars now, not matter how much the internet cries about it.

A very fair, balanced take

 

[saik]

\

Man y'all really out here thinking that every reviewer is paid when they don't agree with you lmfao. Get out of your echo chambers, there are blue skies outside.


Haven't driven the new Z yet, but I think its pretty much fact that the Supra is disconnected driving experience when compared to more driver's focused cars. Steering feel and feedback is marginal at best and the car is absolutely set up to oversteer on transition. Doesn't diminish the fact that it's an absolutely fantastic package, especially for the money. Chassis has tremendous rigidity, and the powertrain blows almost every competitor out of the water (and yes, we can say Thanks BMW for that). By the way, many of you who haven't owned MKIVs don't realize that even the A80's hydraulic steering rack was shit for the time. Over-assisted and way too slow, genuinely one of the lowest points of the car. The suspension was also very under-damped, which made it an absolute menace on fast transitions. The Mazda RX-7 absolutely had it beat in all of those aspects. Doesn't diminish the fact that the Supra was a fantastic overall car.

The GR86 is slower and will always be slower in every metric compared to the Supra, but I 1000% would rather be in the GR86 on a track day, or even a backroad. It is just that much more connected and rewarding of a driving experience, and is so neutrally balanced that its always approachable. And just like how there's no reasonable amount of money you can put into a GR86 to make it as capable as a Supra, there's no reasonable amount of money that you can put into a Supra to make it as good of a driver's car as the GR86.

The Z seems like it falls in the middle of those things. It's an improvement on dated architecture which makes it not as fast compared to an ultra-modern platform like the Supra, but also makes it inherently more visceral than what CLAR can provide. I'll have to drive one soon to verify that, but it makes perfect sense.

Word of advice for everyone: Go drive everything, don't worry too much what other people think about what you like. I'm gonna go drive some Hyundai N cars now, not matter how much the internet cries about it.

I think Toyota is paying you for this comment. I'm about to order a GR86 now, dayum.

 

[SupraXXII]

Nissan paid quite a bit.

 

[PikkaGTR]

\


I think Toyota is paying you for this comment. I'm about to order a GR86 now, dayum.

I dont understand the hype of the Toyotabaru twins
I have driven multiple versions, stock and modified
1 gen, facelift, GR86 now
they have always felt like a half finished car, maybe since the S2000 ruined it for me
the Toyota Transmission is garbage to be blunt, rubbery and vauge
the tq on the first gen is laughable, the steering is numb, especially on the BRZ
it is a SLOW car, maybe the allure is it's RWD AND it's CHEAP
but flooring it everywhere to get up to speed gets old quick
trying to pass that Sienna with a full family of 6 and 2 dogs up the hill .........FLOOR IT
The Supra has perhaps a few niggles and compromises, but the ENTIRE idea of the GR86/BRZ is a compromise
Rather have an FK8 CTR or an actual good low powered sports car in the Miata RF

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Man y'all really out here thinking that every reviewer is paid when they don't agree with you lmfao. Get out of your echo chambers, there are blue skies outside.


Haven't driven the new Z yet, but I think its pretty much fact that the Supra is disconnected driving experience when compared to more driver's focused cars. Steering feel and feedback is marginal at best and the car is absolutely set up to oversteer on transition. Doesn't diminish the fact that it's an absolutely fantastic package, especially for the money. Chassis has tremendous rigidity, and the powertrain blows almost every competitor out of the water (and yes, we can say Thanks BMW for that). By the way, many of you who haven't owned MKIVs don't realize that even the A80's hydraulic steering rack was shit for the time. Over-assisted and way too slow, genuinely one of the lowest points of the car. The suspension was also very under-damped, which made it an absolute menace on fast transitions. The Mazda RX-7 absolutely had it beat in all of those aspects. Doesn't diminish the fact that the Supra was a fantastic overall car.

The GR86 is slower and will always be slower in every metric compared to the Supra, but I 1000% would rather be in the GR86 on a track day, or even a backroad. It is just that much more connected and rewarding of a driving experience, and is so neutrally balanced that its always approachable. And just like how there's no reasonable amount of money you can put into a GR86 to make it as capable as a Supra, there's no reasonable amount of money that you can put into a Supra to make it as good of a driver's car as the GR86.

The Z seems like it falls in the middle of those things. It's an improvement on dated architecture which makes it not as fast compared to an ultra-modern platform like the Supra, but also makes it inherently more visceral than what CLAR can provide. I'll have to drive one soon to verify that, but it makes perfect sense.

Word of advice for everyone: Go drive everything, don't worry too much what other people think about what you like. I'm gonna go drive some Hyundai N cars now, not matter how much the internet cries about it.

Yeah all that, and then Geese makes comments like "BMW shit that I loathe" and even the guys IN THE SAME VIDEO disagrees with him, so don't tell me he's not biased lol.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

Nissan paid quite a bit.

Lmao - don’t remind me, that was like watching a bad infomercial where the person is incapable of picking up a book without their “new and improved anti slip coating!”, and instead they just fumble it around for 5 minutes like a drunk infant with no thumbs.

 

[Sub-MkV]

I traded in a boosted 86 with 300whp for my Supra and I must admit that I loved it and loved it even more after coilovers, brakes, wheels and tires and the turbo upgrade. With the Supra just tweaking the suspension with springs, roll bars and alignment made it perfect for me and I don't ever feel like I've made the wrong decision. The only real upside of the 86 was the weight but it's more front heavy in balance(55/45) than the Supra thanks to it having a cab forward sports car setup which I didn't like. The Supra to me feels like a bigger Mx5 RF with gobs of power, more refinement and a better suspension.

 

[saik]

I dont understand the hype of the Toyotabaru twins
I have driven multiple versions, stock and modified
1 gen, facelift, GR86 now
they have always felt like a half finished car, maybe since the S2000 ruined it for me
the Toyota Transmission is garbage to be blunt, rubbery and vauge
the tq on the first gen is laughable, the steering is numb, especially on the BRZ
it is a SLOW car, maybe the allure is it's RWD AND it's CHEAP
but flooring it everywhere to get up to speed gets old quick
trying to pass that Sienna with a full family of 6 and 2 dogs up the hill .........FLOOR IT
The Supra has perhaps a few niggles and compromises, but the ENTIRE idea of the GR86/BRZ is a compromise
Rather have an FK8 CTR or an actual good low powered sports car in the Miata RF

For me it's really because of the price, especially back in 2012. I bought a 2013 BRZ. There wasn't many other options for a 2 seater sports car in that price range (other than a Miata.)

Also yeah if you had an S2000, you're already coming from one of the best driver's car ever created. Even compared to today, so yeah if you go from that to an 86, you'll feel that it's lacking.

I haven't myself even driven the GR86, but just based on the many reviews, they appear to have resolved most of the issues of the 1st gen. Power is up substantially, and some have mentioned it basically has the same amount of power as an S2000.

Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day the 86 twins are entry level sports cars, and nobody should think otherwise.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

That whole video (and previous ones) is him jabbering on how they can improve the Z with better tires, which they did and it made no difference, better brakes, and it made no difference, to now having to improve the soft suspension.

So the Z can be, CAN BE, a good car, as long as you spend thousands on tires, brakes, suspension, etc after you buy the car.

But not the Supra, it's shit as is, and can't be fixed, because BMW GTFOH.

As far as steering goes, I can point and shoot the car however I want, hit every apex I want, over, and over again.
The Supra steering feel and feedback is perfectly fine.
The Supra is a wonderful car right out of the box. I daily mine, autocross mine, track mine, and I NEVER say to myself "hmmm I wish the steering was better blah blah blah"
All I did to mine was an alignment. And it's the most capable car out of the box I've ever driven.
The twins feel better/easier because everything comes at you more slowly. That gives confidence. You can mash the throttle mid corner, and you know nothing will happen because it doesn't have the power to. When you put double the power in a similar car, you also need to double the skill in order to handle it. I've driven plenty of twins, and cars like it. And for what it is, an entry level RWD car, it's fine. But to say it's better than a Supra, is laughable.

 

[Rocksandblues]

I dont understand the hype of the Toyotabaru twins
I have driven multiple versions, stock and modified
1 gen, facelift, GR86 now
they have always felt like a half finished car, maybe since the S2000 ruined it for me
the Toyota Transmission is garbage to be blunt, rubbery and vauge
the tq on the first gen is laughable, the steering is numb, especially on the BRZ
it is a SLOW car, maybe the allure is it's RWD AND it's CHEAP
but flooring it everywhere to get up to speed gets old quick
trying to pass that Sienna with a full family of 6 and 2 dogs up the hill .........FLOOR IT
The Supra has perhaps a few niggles and compromises, but the ENTIRE idea of the GR86/BRZ is a compromise
Rather have an FK8 CTR or an actual good low powered sports car in the Miata RF

The twins- to me- are only fun on the track where can basically flat pedal them

the Supra advanced my throttle management by a decade It’s either learn to manage all that power or spin it.

if you leave all the nanny’s on it is pretty safe but it cuts power so often and adds several seconds to my lap times

when I explore the limits for fun I do it in corners with lots of easy run off. Have definitely looped it around several times

 

[PikkaGTR]

Lmao - don’t remind me, that was like watching a bad infomercial where the person is incapable of picking up a book without their “new and improved anti slip coating!”, and instead they just fumble it around for 5 minutes like a drunk infant with no thumbs.

the neck basket!

 

[saik]

All I did to mine was an alignment.

I don't want to be too off topic, but this isn't the first time I've read this. What was done to the alignment to help? A lil more camber? Toe adjustments? I'm doing a track day next weekend and probably more after, so would love to know.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I don't want to be too off topic, but this isn't the first time I've read this. What was done to the alignment to help? A lil more camber? Toe adjustments? I'm doing a track day next weekend and probably more after, so would love to know.

I like my cars pointy, so I put a little toe out in front. Helps with initial turn-in, but you get more tire wear. I did neutral toe in the rear.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

I don't want to be too off topic, but this isn't the first time I've read this. What was done to the alignment to help? A lil more camber? Toe adjustments? I'm doing a track day next weekend and probably more after, so would love to know.

Nothing. The problem is that many of the cars are rolling off of the assembly line with the alignment far out of spec. So just bringing the alignment into spec can make a world of difference.

My car in particular had a bad shimmy in the rear when hitting bumps, especially while cornering. Whenever I’d hit a small bump it felt like the rear would shift 6” laterally, it made the car feel very uncertain. I swapped springs and while many other aspects of the handling improved, that shimmy in particular stayed exactly the same. Then I got an alignment to factory specs and it disappeared almost entirely.

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