Nissan Z vs Toyota Supra

[kaj]

Of course. That's why we have things like lap times, dyno's, brake tests, 1/4mile, 0-60, etc to take personal opinion out of it. And that's exactly the whole point. The Supra IS the better car, but instead of acknowledging that simple fact, we get stupid shit with a trunk (because that's why we buy sports cars, to move trunks) and desperate opinionated crap to justify bias.

That's the basis of why we're not agreeing: you are speaking in objective terms which has little/nothing to do with the feel of a car.
You are right: the Supra is the better, by the numbers. Literally everyone here and SG states that.
How a car feels can't be quantified with numbers.
As for the trunk thing, that was a great way to get the Internet fired up. Score one for SG

Sponsored

 

[DEupra]

His technique is old and well proven - he gets paid to be an idiot who drives polarity to drive views to drive money into his account. He is a paid shill. That much has been utterly proven. As far as 'car guys' go.........he is utterly sad. He has shite for credibility. He is Goosed Liver pate'.

Just watch the Cammisa - Pobst video here. Its explains things in a professional and much more polished way about the Z and philosophy of its development. Jason knows well its a reskinned sports sedan as an almost sports car. Something Nissan mildly put out as stating its a GT. Z brothers/fans took that to mean Supra Killer I think lol. Without stating its the better 'drivers car' he makes a more measured case for the Z if you dont want the Supra or are simply partial to all things Z etc etc. I speak as a former 2010 370Z owner here in Germany. I enjoyed mine but it was deeply flawed. I did enjoy it overall and it did gain alot of attention. When detailed and clean it was a nice car to view.

Savage goose feathers could learn a thing or 2 from this video as I noted above - https://www.hagerty.com/media/video...ta-wrx-f-pace-svr-jason-cammisa-on-the-icons/

Isn't the Supra a reskined sports sedan as well? CLAR chassis and various parts from BMW's lineup.

Adding: Cammisa also criticized the previous generation Z3/Z4s because they were sedan based as well. I'd assume this would be the same for the Z4/Supra today.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

That's the basis of why we're not agreeing: you are speaking in objective terms which has little/nothing to do with the feel of a car.
You are right: the Supra is the better, by the numbers. Literally everyone here and SG states that.
How a car feels can't be quantified with numbers.
As for the trunk thing, that was a great way to get the Internet fired up. Score one for SG

There's a difference between having an opinion, and using it as a cop-out. He doesn't say "even though the Supra is the better car, I prefer the Z because of blah blah blah" he simply stated "the Z is the better driver's car" which is utter nonsense. If the Z won some categories, I could agree, but 8 wrongs doesn't add up to a better "driver's" car. Not in any fairytale.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

As for the trunk thing, that was a great way to get the Internet fired up. Score one for SG

It was a great way to prove their bias, and make literally every subjective "opinion" they hold suspect. I don't believe them for a second that the Z is actually a better driver's car, for example, since they've proven they can't be trusted.

 

[EziGR]

The big miss between the cars, is the fact that the Z has a way to open the hatch from behind, not relying on the key fob, or a button inside the door (that once pushed you cannot close the door as it will cause the hatch to bounce and relock), and also has a place to actually lift it open instead of carefully jamming your fingertips inbetween the tiny gap.

Thats really all the Z is better at, and I think it has a center console as well.

 

[romanLegion9574]

Isn't the Supra a reskined sports sedan as well? CLAR chassis and various parts from BMW's lineup.

Adding: Cammisa also criticized the previous generation Z3/Z4s because they were sedan based as well. I'd assume this would be the same for the Z4/Supra today.

I'm not sure its that simple. The platform is meant to be modular, and I highly doubt they use the exact same modules for the Supra and Z4 as they do for the X7.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Isn't the Supra a reskined sports sedan as well? CLAR chassis and various parts from BMW's lineup.

Adding: Cammisa also criticized the previous generation Z3/Z4s because they were sedan based as well. I'd assume this would be the same for the Z4/Supra today.

No. The platform is completely and totally bespoke for the GR Supra and Z4.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I don't watch all of their content but they've made a few Supra videos and Mark has had the same bad attitude toward the Supra in each of them (so it's not just this video). Based on that I have a hard time believing he's being objective in his review, especially when the Supra outperforms the Z in every objective metric!

I recall in another video (I think it was a follow-up discussion of the '21 Supra; edit: I linked it below), Mark sarcastically groans about having to be under a Supra again. Even in this video, he's still making the tired BMW jokes after three years. Come on, they even titled the video "A Real JDM Battle" - surely they didn't intend to continue fueling resentment in viewers/comments regarding the BMW collab. This YouTuber clickbait stuff takes them down a step.

edit:


And @11:45: "Now with the Z with a twin turbo 400 horsepower car with a manual transmission out of the box... there's absolutely no point to get this [Supra] other than just you're kind of a bmw toyota fan" - And now we know the Supra outperforms the Z and there is a manual Supra on the horizon. Didn't seem to change Mark's opinion.

When I actually said that I thought of this video, but I was like naahhh just post that comment anyways without the addendum LOL. Out of the five videos that they've done on this car, the first video regarding this car had the tone of "let's see what this car does" and "it's actually pretty solid but the partnership can turn people off" and the videos subsequent to this were a lot better and there were times where he actually compliments the GR Supra.

However the fourth video (this one) really irked me quite a bit.

I think he was rooting for the GR Supra initially but once he learned about the Z, that's what he prefers. And you know what, that's fine, but some of the reasoning is quite funny to me lol.

 

[DEupra]

No. The platform is completely and totally bespoke for the GR Supra and Z4.

Isn't the Z's platform bespoke for the Z?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Isn't the Z's platform bespoke for the Z?

Nope.

 

[DEupra]

Nope.

Same same?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Same same?

Sure. This is a normal thing. Lots of companies share platforms. If you look at the Dodge Challenger and Charger, they're built on a Mercedes platform. Nothing new.

 

[DEupra]

Sure. This is a normal thing. Lots of companies share platforms. If you look at the Dodge Challenger and Charger, they're built on a Mercedes platform. Nothing new.

I'm just hoping someone on these forums has more info since there doesn't seem to be much technical info about CLAR or the Supra chassis on google/youtube. It may be a little unfair/hypocritcal to say the Nissan Z is sedan based when I haven't found any evidence that the Supra/Z4 aren't. Of course the Supra has the better chassis vs. the Nissan Z, but I'm not so sure it's any less sedan based than the Z. Also sedan based maybe a stupid thing for Cammisa to say, when all he may be inferring to is the high curb weight and body roll of the Z that reminds him of sedans. (edit: the Supra may just do a better job hiding it's weight)

As a disclaimer I have a deposit on an MT Supra since April, so I'm not just here to stir the pot lol.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I'm just hoping someone on these forums has more info since there doesn't seem to be much technical info about CLAR or the Supra chassis on google/youtube. It may be a little unfair/hypocritcal to say the Nissan Z is sedan based when I haven't found any evidence that the Supra/Z4 aren't. Of course the Supra has the better chassis vs. the Nissan Z, but I'm not so sure it's any less sedan based than the Z. Also sedan based maybe a stupid thing for Cammisa to say, when all he may be inferring to is the high curb weight and body roll of the Z that reminds him of sedans.

As a disclaimer I have a deposit on an MT Supra since April, so I'm not just here to stir the pot lol.

I'd think the Supra wheelbase is too short to be sedan based. You already sit on top of the rear axle as is. Add another row of seats and you're behind the axle.

 

[DEupra]

I'd think the Supra wheelbase is too short to be sedan based. You already sit on top of the rear axle as is. Add another row of seats and you're behind the axle.

2023 Nissan Z/Wheelbase
100.4″

2023 Toyota GR Supra/Wheelbase
97.21″

2023 INFINITI Q50/Wheelbase
112.2″

2023 BMW 3 Series/Wheelbase
112.2″

Adding: 2023 Toyota GR86/Wheelbase
101.4″

Sponsored