Toyota Presents World Debut of the New 2022 GR 86

Viselord

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Gen 1 has plenty of Toyota engineering in it, hence why it's Subaru's most reliable model. Also plenty of Toyota parts on the car.

Gen 2 is apparently nearly all Subaru parts and engineering. As in chief engineer is a Subaru employee.
Damn, not sure how I feel about that. Kind of sad how Toyota is taking this approach to their sports cars.
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tfoxyr

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Gen 1 has plenty of Toyota engineering in it, hence why it's Subaru's most reliable model. Also plenty of Toyota parts on the car.

Gen 2 is apparently nearly all Subaru parts and engineering. As in chief engineer is a Subaru employee.
I thought that the gen 1 has d4-s and the transmission(aisin) or diff only from toyota.
Also are they really gonna change so much? But even if the team is primarily subaru engineers , toyota has very high standards for their cars reliability, and while i dont trust all subarus , they are not in a bad spot. Bmw especially in some previous years was at the bottom of reliability tables , but i dont believe the supra will be like most bmw engineered vehicles.

The things that worry me the most is the performance that the car will have , specifically i would like it to be faster than the yaris ( seems like a joke just typing it), and to a lesser degree because it will be a toyota branded car to be indeed reliable in all areas( electrical , mechanical , everything).
 

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Not worth my time to delve int this much further for now, but it's just not the same situation as Gen 1 and not what I was looking for personally.

Reality happens.


^^ A70, this means that while Tetsuya Tada is involved he is only overseeing or advising the 2nd gen 86 project even though it is a GR division co-developed product?
It sounded to me like Tada isn't involved or is merely an advisor.
 

hanswurst24

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My understanding always was it would eventually switch to SGP and use the new generation downsized engines that subaru developed so they dont continue paying huge money in taxes over emissions. Btw apart from the 1.8T there is a 1.6T a 2.4T and i think one more is coming , it is a 1.5T i think? Anyway not all of them bad options , let's all hope they don't drop the ball and put a NA engine in there or anything under 220hp.

As for handling if it is as good as the 1st gen , i don't think anyone could ask more in these price ranges.
Handling should be great, but I'm not 100% sure about the engine. Hence my question about the turbo.
Last year I got word about it staying true to its roots and utilizing the 2.4 NA and some time later some others talked about the 1.8 turbo... Either way: it should be slightly under the 2.0 Supra (190 kW) with the Supra being the "more luxurious" and with more tech to justify the higher price tag for the Supra.
 

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All the while there was so little info on it internally, but it all makes a lot more sense if everything was done in-house at Subaru with merely Toyota feedback.
Now all I see in my head is a Toyota engineer breathing down a Subaru engineer's neck holding a big stick so that the 2nd gen would turn out good lol
 

tfoxyr

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Last year I got word about it staying true to its roots and utilizing the 2.4 NA and some time later some others talked about the 1.8 turbo... Either way: it should be slightly under the 2.0 Supra (190 kW) with the Supra being the "more luxurious" and with more tech to justify the higher price tag for the Supra.
The engine from my understanding at least was debated , i mean even the 1.6T was a candidate at some point and even hybrid.

For the power figures i would not be so sure it will be less than the current sz-r supra , the current sz supra makes 197 hp which is about 10 less hp than the 86 and is more expensive than the 86, also the sz-r will get the 280+ hp bmw b48 so even if a wild 260hp 86 in 2023 appears it will still be less powerful than the supra.
 

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Gen 1 has plenty of Toyota engineering in it, hence why it's Subaru's most reliable model. Also plenty of Toyota parts on the car.

Gen 2 is apparently nearly all Subaru parts and engineering. As in chief engineer is a Subaru employee.
So ,the GR86 is more likely to vape?
 

Red-hat

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Disappointed to hear Toyota are not playing as active a role in the mkII as the mkI, but still, if they keep the fundamentals from the mkI and just make it slightly quicker, nicer inside, and keep it affordable, it should still be a great car. I mean, is there a risk the Subaru team will screw it up? Or is it that they may lack the passion for the project that Tada’s original team had?
 

KahnBB6

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I've been reading articles about Subaru's driveline issues for a few months now and your concern probably isn't unfounded. This makes me think about when so many 1990's Japanese cars were generally (some more than others) known for their "overbuilt" reputation. Toyota and Nissan more than the others but it seems that in the decades since there has been a trend toward not overdoing it on the strength of individual parts.

With Subaru's current valve spring failure issues it would seem they tried to save a little *too much* cost in the wrong area.
 

A70TTR

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You know why? Engineering, more specifically strength of materials, has gotten far more advanced in the recent decades and combined with tighter budgets has combined to try to find the best cross axis between cost and efficiency.

This is the reason things don't seem to be anywhere near as strong or over engineered anymore. It's because they are not; they're building the components to just meet the desired level of performance and longevity.

The only reason Toyota stays ahead is because of a commitment to the best quality on the market, so they spend extra to ensure materials exceed design spec every time.


But for others that try to ride closer to the line, you end up getting failures from small production issues, owners doing things that weren't intended, or even things the system should be able to handle but can't because a small variable has changed.
 

KahnBB6

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^^ You've laid out the current reality quite plainly once again. That makes complete sense. And it's also a little sad. It means few drivelines come out these days that are intended for the owners to push quite hard or modify for more power (at least with the stock moving & rotating parts).

Given that is how all of the manufacturers, Toyota included, *approach* materials strength and tolerances that meet the design specs today I'm glad Toyota still does a version of what they always have in exceeding the requirements a bit or occasionally more than a bit.

Not that it may help the GR86 now.

But... if Toyota was willing to sell close to 100% BMW engines in the Supra after testing those drivelines like crazy and requiring many minor revisions throughout the engine just to get certain parts up to *their* standard wouldn't the same be true for the 2nd gen 86 even though Subaru engineers are doing all the work this time?

In other words, won't at the very least, the same QC process and revision of any offending parts that was applied to the MKV's development also apply to the GR86's development?
 
 




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