Toyota Presents World Debut of the New 2022 GR 86

[Red-hat]

Realistically, is there any passion for the next gen BRZ in a Subaru engineering team? When it comes to performance Subaru is all about practical turbo AWD vehicles, not RWD NA ones. This whole gen II development so far has the feeling of Subaru getting their arm twisted by big brother Toyota to make a new car Subaru would rather not bother with.

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[A70TTR]

I mean if the shoe fits then.........

 

[Jabba]

Stuff like this article would be my main concern:

https://www.autonews.com/article/20181112/OEM/181119964/subaru-quality-problems-extend-to-u-s

Yeah that's a good point. Definitely was part of my concern back in 2017, coming from the earlier 4U-GSE FR-S. Big reason why I didn't want to go with the EJ motor.

From my research and asking around on the Subaru forums, the newer FA motors are good steps forward and highly more reliable (Still not a fan of the plastic intake manifold though). Haven't had any issues with my car so far, and build quality seems to be holding up. However, Subaru still got progress to make overall.

I want to get back into an 86, really fun car, just felt too underpowered at times. Hopefully Toyota and Subaru will address that concern and use a turbo variant of the FA. I was hoping Toyota would have a more hands on approach build quality wise, but I don't have doubts about the motor. Low weight, turbo motor ~250hp/~240ish Tq, manual transmission would be sweet right now.

 

[A70TTR]

The FA in the 86/BRZ is a decent engine and Toyota assisted in developing that platform, which is not to be taken for granted.

the FA20DIT, even with plastic intake and regular DI seems to still be decent enough for now.

Hopefully they manage to do better, especially with Toyota offering guidance/recommendations.

 

[Jabba]

Wait I'm a bit confused. Subaru intentionally moved away from the D4-S in the FA? If so, why? That would had been a god send to have for the WRX/STI going forward. I don't know if it's just incompatible with more pressure from the turbo? Or something.

 

[A70TTR]

Toyota isn't a partner on their other engines, and the deal as far as i'm aware was only for the NA FA20D (4U-GSE) in the twins. But yeah, it is a fair downgrade, both from an efficiency and maintenance standpoint.

 

[hanswurst24]

Realistically, is there any passion for the next gen BRZ in a Subaru engineering team? When it comes to performance Subaru is all about practical turbo AWD vehicles, not RWD NA ones. This whole gen II development so far has the feeling of Subaru getting their arm twisted by big brother Toyota to make a new car Subaru would rather not bother with.

Subaru started development of a second generation BRZ way before Toyota (more or less officially) decided it was worth the effort to team up again. This is also why the car is in its late development stages and the rumor mill just starts to tell us Toyota has started working on it...
And to be fair: Toyota did not have as much influence on the first generation as you all might think. Don't saying they had none, but not as much. But this time they probably had (even) less...

 

[tfoxyr]

i think the engineer that was in charge got lucky that got a permission to use the d4-s system in a non toyota engine especially 10+ years ago.

Now for the 2nd gen we all have seen how much and how many people want a 250hp turbo 86 , i believe there is a market for it to exist and i am optimistic that the people developing the car have heard want the people want. As for the 4 cyl supra , in my opinion it is half baked , 2 seater kinda high priced , if i wanted an impractical car i would get at least the 6 cylinder one.

 

[A70TTR]

Subaru started development of a second generation BRZ way before Toyota (more or less officially) decided it was worth the effort to team up again. This is also why the car is in its late development stages and the rumor mill just starts to tell us Toyota has started working on it...
And to be fair: Toyota did not have as much influence on the first generation as you all might think. Don't saying they had none, but not as much. But this time they probably had (even) less...

Your supposition of how the 2nd generation went down is entirely possible and IMO fairly likely given the interactions I've had. But the first generation was an entirely different situation and was absolutely started by and led by Toyota, and I've spoken to Tada at length about this process and the details therein. If you do not want to believe him or that this is the case, well that's up to you...

That said, both teams assisted in getting the car done and I'd put the division of labor at something like ~3/5 Toyota and 2/5 Subaru. As where Gen 2 certainly appears to be 90%+ Subaru.

 

[hanswurst24]

But the first generation was an entirely different situation and was absolutely started by and led by Toyota, and I've spoken to Tada at length about this process and the details therein. If you do not want to believe him or that this is the case, well that's up to you...

That said, both teams assisted in getting the car done and I'd put the division of labor at something like ~3/5 Toyota and 2/5 Subaru.

This exactly matches my information, but sometimes here in the forum it sounds like Toyota did the 86 on its own. That's why I wrote that before, just wanted to point out Subaru also developed a good part of the first gen.

 

[A70TTR]

ahhh, my mistake then, as that is more or less correct in my understanding.

 

[hanswurst24]

Yep, also think you are right. I heard similar statements from both Toyota and Subaru very good matching this "story"

 

[jm6k]

Your supposition of how the 2nd generation went down is entirely possible and IMO fairly likely given the interactions I've had. But the first generation was an entirely different situation and was absolutely started by and led by Toyota, and I've spoken to Tada at length about this process and the details therein. If you do not want to believe him or that this is the case, well that's up to you...

......... are you hiding some secret clue in your signature that we're supposed to decode?

 

[A70TTR]

 

[Bryster]

Would I be wrong in assuming that Subaru knows what to do with the GR86 at this point?

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