Toyota Presents World Debut of the New 2022 GR 86

[Jabba]

It's NA, has slightly more power, and apparently weighs more.

Not even sure what the point is really. Oh well, at least that fits the product stack strategy as said lol

https://www.carmag.co.za/news/rumou...ms-new-toyota-gr-86-will-not-be-turbocharged/

Initially, there were suggestions grunt would come from a Subaru-sourced turbocharged 2,4-litre horizontally opposed engine. Then talk turned to Subaru’s turbocharged 1,8-litre flat-four.

The latest report from Japan’s Best Car Web, however, claims a naturally aspirated version of the 2,4-litre unit mentioned above will be employed.

Here, the publication claims, the boxer mill will offer 162 kW and 240 N.m to the rear axle, up from the current 2,0-litre engine’s 147 kW and 205 N.m. Of course, that’d leave sufficient breathing space for the 190 kW entry-level four-cylinder Supra offered in some markets

Definitely had my doubts with the original speculations and the leak from that dealer conference only confirmed when it was arriving, no real #'s were displayed.

At this point I'm getting tired with Toyota's sport car revitalization. The 3L MKV is the only thing of interest. I'll wait to drive the GR86 before completely writing it off.

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[KahnBB6]

I'm glad at least some version of the 86 is still going to be made. It's *still* a relatively small, 2+2 coupe layout, unfortunately weighs more (by how much more though??), will continue to offer the Aisin 6-speed manual, stay rear wheel drive with a Torsen LSD (it had better) and I guess *some* more power is better than no more power at all.

There continue to be VERY few new sports cars that offer that overall 2-door, 2+2, RWD, small, LSD, manual combination even if this is not much improvement over the 1st generation.

Larger displacement will mean a lower ultimate redline but hopefully better low end and midrange torque... although it's going to be such a small bump plus the added weight I kind of wonder if maybe, for all the complaints about the current FA20, revving the piss out of the 86 engine in the corners wasn't part of what made it special?

Since a revised or brand new 6-speed automatic will be on offer perhaps that is the main key ingredient that is being tuned for this time around with an only slightly more powerful 2.4L FA? As in the 6-speed manual might not be emphasized nearly as much when tuning the ECU's maps?

If this is the last 86 to come with a manual gearbox option I hope give it as much tuning love as they will the automatic.

It's just disappointing that, like with the Supra MKV absent a manual gearbox that clearly does exist in the BMW parts bin... for the GR86 even with bare minimum re-engineering there are turbo engines off the shelf in 1.8L, 2.0L and 2.4L that they could just leave as is or detune a little to bolt to the 6-speed M/T and 6-speed auto.

I'll also give this a look and a drive before casting any judgement.

 

[MLG Tofu Shop]

IMO the big problems of the engine in the 86/BRZ is the way it feels and the torque curve rather than its specs. Based on Car and Drivers' tests of the 86 and the ND2 Miata, both of them have a quarter mile trap speed of 95mph, yet a standing quater mile run in an ND2 is much more enjoyable than the 86 because the ND2's engine feels so much better 86's engine.

I know some of you probably want to cut my balls off for saying this but the 86 was never about straight line performance, never about being a turbocharged rocket sled, just like a Miata. So just maybe this NA FA24 is more than enough to sort out the biggest problem of the current generation 86.

 

[KahnBB6]

MLG Tofu Shop, you make a sound argument for what the 86 is supposed to be about. Few have described its FA20 NA as being enjoyable and then there has been its torque dip in the middle of its powerband. I drove two of them and felt it was fine... but certainly not a remarkable engine.

If they’re taking an off the shelf FA24 and mapping a new ECU for it to take advantage of a much broader rather than peaky torque curve then I’m open to experiencing the result to see how it feels.

A mild turbo FA engine in this car just seems like such a no-brainer for Toyota and Subaru but it appears that is not what’s happening.

I’m just glad the car has relatively the same bullet point specs and keeps the manual transmission.

However I wonder if my impression of the 2nd gen 86 would make me prefer the outgoing 86 over it flaws and all. Despite those flaws it is still a very good small driver’s car. The only thing I don’t immediately like about it is the front bumper... it needs an FRS bumper swap to look its best.

I hope they maintain that charm with the next generation.

 

[SS09ER]

^I just hope they maintain it under 1300kg.

Btw i like the facelift bumper

 

[tfoxyr]

From my point of view it's very clear that engines with turbos are better for sports cars , at least affordable ones. And this is not an opinion based on preference. For example look at silvias, and see what is the preferred engine , the KA 24 which was NA 2.4 liters or the sr20 turbo. Look at the supra and see which one of the 2 NA or twin turbo is the one sought after. I have many more examples and not with 90s japanese cars only.

So for me if the car has NA engine with 217hp i am not going to even bother testing it out , i will probably go for a used manual 2 series 4 cyl turbo or eco boost mustang manual, unfortunately camaro is out of the question because in europe it comes only with automatic on 4 cyl so tough luck there.

 

[KahnBB6]

From my point of view it's very clear that engines with turbos are better for sports cars , at least affordable ones. And this is not an opinion based on preference. For example look at silvias, and see what is the preferred engine , the KA 24 which was NA 2.4 liters or the sr20 turbo. Look at the supra and see which one of the 2 NA or twin turbo is the one sought after. I have many more examples and not with 90s japanese cars only.

So for me if the car has NA engine with 217hp i am not going to even bother testing it out , i will probably go for a used manual 2 series 4 cyl turbo or eco boost mustang manual, unfortunately camaro is out of the question because in europe it comes only with automatic on 4 cyl so tough luck there.

^^ Actually today I totally agree for affordable sports cars (the 181hp naturally aspirated Miata perhaps being the sole exception). This was the case in the 1990's and still holds true. Only in the U.S. (and Australia I would imagine) did we have an exception to this since there has traditionally been a plentiful supply of sporty cars and sports cars with V8's for a long time, although that longstanding trend has been changing gradually even here.

But other than really old classics or Mustangs and Camaros the best sports cars even here have been rear wheel drive and all wheel drive turbocharged cars be they official for the U.S. market, grey imports (25 years old or older for us) or U.S. models with engines swapped in from their much better equipped Japanese counterparts.

I wanted to buy a Nissan 240SX (aka Silvia) back when they were only barely used cars and I was pretty underwhelmed by the anemic 155hp 2.4L KA24DE engine even with a manual. Great chassis but it was so dog slow and the prices for them back then (new or almost new) were very high for what you were getting. Right off the bat they needed another 50hp. It was a very annoying surprise when I learned that the Japanese Silvia variants had a 200hp and later 250hp SR20DET engine option with plenty of turbo torque.... that you could tune for even more boost and power.

Sure there were JDM engine swaps available if you knew how or knew someone who could help but this also was not an option when I needed an emissions legal car that I could use every day.

So no go for me back then with a 240SX (aka slow turbo-less USDM Silvia).

I have to say that while the Gen1 GT86/BRZ/FRS isn't fast by any means it having at least the minimum amount of power I'd accept (200hp/156tq) is OK. Not wonderful but OK. Because otherwise it's rare to even find a small, compact, lightweight RWD 2+2 6-speed M/T LSD equipped sports car even offered these days.

I am definitely disappointed that the Gen2 86/BRZ will *still* not have a turbo engine after this being a no-brainer request from pretty much everyone. Roughly 217hp and 177tq from 2.4L? I sure hope the numbers are far better than that.

However it is the whole car that I hope still retains the magic of the Gen1 series.

And overall even if the tiny non-turbo power bump will not be much at all? I will still test drive it.

Why? Because I at least will want to know how it feels and if it actually was done right so as to be worth considering.

We are fast entering a time when purist RWD sports cars with manual transmissions and mechanical limited slip differentials are almost not offered at all any longer. I'd still rather consider a car like the 2nd Gen 86 over the average crossover CVT boring buckets that are often the alternatives. It's a small sports car on an increasingly short list.

And I'm a former classic Mustang guy. I still like Ford's best (and now only) car. The EcoBoost H.O. 6-speed M/T with the big brake and limited slip package is a great combination. So is the Camaro 2.0L turbo 6-speed models (USA only it seems?).

The only other closest turbo RWD manual combination we got here officially is the original Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T R-Spec 6-speed M/T's and those are now long discontinued.

It does sting a lot here that the rest of the world got a lot of great affordable turbo sports cars but due to our draconian vehicle importation laws and boneheaded decisions by many manufacturers we just never were allowed to experience them (unless we brought in the parts from overseas and built them ourselves) until they all become 25+ year old antiques which you have to hunt down rare factory replacement parts for.

So the 2nd gen 86/BRZ staying naturally aspirated does annoy us here quite a bit just as with manual transmissions being such a difficult option to obtain in new cars.

But it will still be a new car built to specs that while not ideal are still FAR closer to the ideal than most cars on sale will offer.

I'm not saying it's great at all that the most obvious thing that Subaru could do (put a turbo boxer in the GR86) is the only thing they are not doing. It sucks. But I am saying that given how very few cars like the GR86 are even being made at all any longer amidst a sea of semi-self-driving crossover SUV offerings with CVT transmissions I am still glad Toyota and Subaru are giving the formula a chance.

If I do like the GR86 I am sure I'll still be able to drive the living piss out of it and have lots of fun.

If I want turbo RWD manual transmission fun in a bigger car I have that covered, albeit in a near 30 year old chassis. So far Toyota is not offering anything in their product line to replace that, Supra included.

I *do* wish this 2nd gen would be given a turbo boxer with the 6-speed manual already (and I'm scratching my head at how the 2.4L is supposed to appeal to those young buyers in Japan who can better afford a 2.0L tax bracket) but I am still happy this 86 hasn't become a FWD, CVT 140hp crossover with "sporty" styling.

 

[Ultimateone]

It's NA, has slightly more power, and apparently weighs more.

Not even sure what the point is really. Oh well, at least that fits the product stack strategy as said lol

?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/fut...976344&utm_medium=social&utm_source=instagram

 

[hanswurst24]

?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/fut...976344&utm_medium=social&utm_source=instagram

Only about half the stuff written there is more or less happening... they even mention the TNGA...
But funny to see these kind of "news" come up again and again, after all that has been leaked so far (leaked from sources able to add up the pieces they've heard and not just use pure imagination like some of the "journalists" out there, sometimes I believe they're playing Scrabble all day long).

 

[CarGuy11]

After driving the current gen 86 I'm really excited for the next gen! Doesn't need much, just update the electronics & tweak the engine to get rid of torque dip.

 

[supraboi]

So is it basically a reskin version of the current car but with a 2.4 liter motor instead?

 

[KahnBB6]

We don't entirely know yet as to which chassis is used or how much the existing one is modified if they're not opting for a new chassis. Engine-wise I guess we're getting a 2.4L boxer NA. But hey, it's still a bit more power and torque with a a likely different engine dyno curve and we still get a 6-speed manual and LSD. A new car with that combination for its size still goes a long way for me considering how few such options like it are sold new any longer.

 

[tyavuz]

I think it's good news for new 86 to stay n/a for not to lose car's basic nature. I was also skeptic how 2.4 turbo boxer from the ascent (which is all about the low-end torque at the moment - apart from the possible sti application) can make 86 a better car. Also from the business point of view, going turbo will possibly effects the sales of Supra 2.0.

So staying n/a is good according to my opinion. Also i have checked the engine specs of 2.4 turbo boxer engine and it seems like a bored out version of FA20 while piston stroke remains the same. So i think with the revised new head and D4s application this engine can be rev happy as the FA20.
But i have few concerns.

- First of all; rumored engine specs are not good as expected. From basic look to this engine they can definitely squeeze 240/245 hp and 250/255 Nm torque easily.

-My other concern is weight of the car. If they pass 1300 kg then all of this setup won't gonna make sense for enthusiastic point of view. I wish they can manage to keep the weight as it is.

- Another one is torque dip; usually low displacement n/a boxer engines have this kind of torque dip. Just look at 2.7 liter previous base cayman's dyno sheets. They have similar torque dip in the lower revs. Also 2.7 cayman is often criticized as lifeless on the lower rev range. So considering these, i don't think upgrading the displacement from 2.0 to 2.4 liters won't solve the torque dip issue. I think Toyota should really consider supporting lower revs with some kind of electric supercharger or a hybrid system with small electric motor that we have previously saw on the Honda Cr-z with manual gearbox. This will help on flattening the torque curve without disrupting car's pure nature.

- My last concern is about the engine displacement itself. Many countries -including mine- still taxing according to engine volume. Volumes greater than 2.0 liters are often taxed higher. Also if i recall correctly japan is also taxing more for the engines bigger than 2.0 liters. This definitely will cause lower car sales and 86 isn't a good seller to start with. This can be major issue with the car that should've been affordable rwd sports car. I was also considering of buying gen-2 86 when it will be released if they can maintain the same formula. But in this case, i don't think i will be able to buy it with higher taxation since its won't gonna worth to pay much more premium on these circumstances. Heck, i don't think toyota even will bring the car to our country if its happens. (we didn't get nissan 370z or bmw z4 m40i.). From my point of view, making 86 2.4liter boxer engined car will cause this car lose sales to its big brother Supra 2.0 on the countries like ours.

 

[MLG Tofu Shop]

https://translate.googleusercontent...151627&usg=ALkJrhitNaHgMMGZs7VCNd7DDWFpDQMa2Q

Based on Subaru's new platform, but modified to suit RWD sports cars like 86 and BRZ, so pretty much the same approach as the current generation 86/BRZ but with much newer underpinnings, chassis rigidity should be improved significantly over the current gen. Weight is pretty much the same as the current 86/BRZ if all of this info is accurate.

Just like what @tyavuz said, I thought they would squeeze out at least 240hp from this NA FA24, considering the NA FA20 has a specific output of around 100hp/litre, but oh well.

 

[Viselord]

Looks kind of weird.

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