Should we wait for the Manual Transmission Supra? Update: Tada-san says no to MT?

PerformanceSound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
1,468
Reaction score
2,594
Location
USA
Car(s)
2020 Tundra TRD Pro, 1994 MKIV Supra TT
Vehicle Showcase
2
In an Autoblog interview up today, the chief engineer indicated that " There will be no manual transmission, despite an outcry in parts of the enthusiast community over the lack of a row-it-yourself shifter. His advice: 'Customers who want a manual should choose the Toyota 86.'"

So MT fans have now been given the official Toyota finger.
Just curious, do you know if this is an official ‘NO’ for the the A90 that it will NEVER get a manual, or a ‘NO’ that a manual won’t be offered for now?





Advertisement

 

Hakkim23

Well-Known Member
First Name
Basith
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Messages
106
Reaction score
50
Location
USA
Car(s)
2002 Toyota Camry
I am deeply saddened by this
I know that part of the reason is that it will affect 86 sales in a negative way
But what the GR Supra lacks compared to the Cayman and even the M2 is a manual transmission
I like the way how the GR Supra is different in its league but it will have its true potential with a stick shift
Hopefully Toyota will change their minds and offer a manual transmission for the GR Supra
Because the GR Supra would be a true sports car with the manual transmission
Now I'm searching for manual swap kits when I get my Supra
 

Jabba

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
268
Reaction score
627
Location
U.S.
Car(s)
2017 Subaru WRX
Just curious, do you know if this is an official ‘NO’ for the the A90 that it will NEVER get a manual, or a ‘NO’ that a manual won’t be offered for now?
From the article,

Tada also told us what not to expect: There will be no manual transmission, despite an outcry in parts of the enthusiast community over the lack of a row-it-yourself shifter. His advice: "Customers who want a manual should choose the Toyota 86."
They don't necessary say what their question to Tada-san was or his words exactly to the MT question. But, I think we could all stop reading inbetween the lines. If Toyota were working on a manual, we would at least seen something more official by now. All we have now is dated info and plenty of vague denials from Tada-san.
 

FreeFall

Member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
20
Reaction score
35
Location
USA
Car(s)
57 chevy, 12 mustang, accura, silverado
No manual? No sale. It really is that simple for me. Automatics are for minivans and race cars. That likely makes me an anachronism. But I’m an anachronism with buying power that will be looking elsewhere.
The C8 comparison isn’t really valid, either. The C8 has a DCT, which is an entirely different beast. It’s disappointing; it’s a really nice car, and I reckon it will sell well.
The fact is, Toyota isn’t counting on this car to make their bottom line. It sells in small enough numbers that any profit is fairly negligible to a company that large. Spending the money certifying a manual would cut into that deeply. So while I’m disappointed, I’m not surprised.
 

PerformanceSound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
1,468
Reaction score
2,594
Location
USA
Car(s)
2020 Tundra TRD Pro, 1994 MKIV Supra TT
Vehicle Showcase
2
From the article,



They don't necessary say what their question to Tada-san was or his words exactly to the MT question. But, I think we could all stop reading inbetween the lines. If Toyota were working on a manual, we would at least seen something more official by now. All we have now is dated info and plenty of vague denials from Tada-san.
Yeah, I’m not denying the article....but I’m also not factoring out the chance of a manual either. Tada’s interviews have been really odd and cryptic. For example, he constantly mentions how easy it is to “take out the fake vents to put real ones in place.” I don’t doubt the fake vents can be removed, but some of those fake vents have no pre-cut holes behind them....so, what would real vents in place actually do?...for aesthetics? I know it’s not the same comparison, but I have my doubts.

Personally, I’m going to wait....seeing what other manufacturers are saying in interviews and what they are actually releasing seems to be inconsistent. Ford said “Venom kills Demons” and as far as I know the new GT500 is not faster than a Demon. They also said that a manual is not offered in the GT500, yet several people reviewing the car mention a manual eventually coming.

I’m not factoring out the possibility of a manual yet :D.
 

DesmoSD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
1,941
Location
San Diego
Car(s)
1993.5 Supra TT, 997.1 911 Carrera S, 1199 Panigale S
Not surprised by Tada's statement. Finally he's being more concrete instead of his normal half ass passive answers of the past. If there was any glimpse of a 6spd MT or even targa, it would have been been in the pipeline a long time ago.

I'm wiling to bet that the future releases will be at a minimal with no engine or transmission upgrades. It will consist of special colors, special badges and exterior body kit trim all with a premium in true Toyota fashion.
 

Toyotawild

Well-Known Member
First Name
Zach
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
379
Reaction score
260
Location
Richland wa
Car(s)
07 Toyota Tundra supercharged, 03 Acura cls-6
Just to repost here for those who don't already know... here is a May 2017 spy shot of a prototype new generation BMW Z4 with a manual transmission. Presumably this is a 2.0L model. But it does prove that a LHD manual version of the co-developed underlying chassis/platform exists or did exist during the R&D and prototyping stage.

It is not as if the Z4 and Supra were not initially engineered for both the ZF automatic *and* manual transmission hardware, the engine size application for it aside.

If Toyota actually wanted to listen to customer demand for this, their globally iconic sportscar model, they could release a manual variant. Especially since this will be the last Supra generation where this will even be possible.

And that's what is most frustrating. Once the A90 ceases production a number of years from now all the manual arguments won't matter anyway. But at current time... they certainly do.

It's nowhere near close to the reasons why the Corvette C8 didn't get a manual. In that case they went to a mid engine dry sump transaxle layout. There were no existing transaxles that met the needs of their new Vette so one had to be designed from scratch. Still, there was enough demand to offer a manual C8 given its popularity and manual take rate but since it wasn't as simple as adapting an existing manual gearbox from an OEM supplier that more than likely is why they nixed it for the Vette.

But in the case of the Supra MKV (and BMW Z4) the excuses hold very little water. The R&D, parts and manual transmission designs DO already exist. The entire driveline of the 2020 model Supras consist of off the shelf BMW parts that received Toyota tweaking and failure testing but which were all derived from existing parts bin components and assemblies for the most part (and no this is not an allusion to one of those "but it's not a Supra" arguments. I'm not going there nor am I interested in that).

Echoing what Jeff said above, all the parts to release a manual Supra 3.0L already exist. And people are asking for it despite the ZF8 auto's reputation and good reception.

Toyota does not need to design a strong BMW manual gearbox, clutch disc(s), pressure plate(s), manual pedal parts, clutch master and slave cylinder, etc. from scratch. These components already exist.

All they have to do is decide to actually put the right arrangement of parts together in a manual variant and write an ECU tune that will work with it all.... if they only would.

2019-bmw-z4-spy-photo.jpg


From: https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/05/23/2019-bmw-z4-spyshots-confirm-manual-gearbox/
Its the 4cyl
 

PerformanceSound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
1,468
Reaction score
2,594
Location
USA
Car(s)
2020 Tundra TRD Pro, 1994 MKIV Supra TT
Vehicle Showcase
2
Tada did (in the past) mention that if there was enough demand, that a manual would be available right? What changed from then til now? The demand? Toyota is probably waiting to see how much money they make initially before further going down the manual transmission hole. If Toyota knew a manual wouldn’t be available, they would have said a hard NO from the beginning, and not thrown hints here and there.

Like I said, I’ll wait....and if there truly won’t be a manual, then a MKV Supra will never be in my garage.
 

Jabba

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
268
Reaction score
627
Location
U.S.
Car(s)
2017 Subaru WRX
I'm wiling to bet that the future releases will be at a minimal with no engine or transmission upgrades. It will consist of special colors, special badges and exterior body kit trim all with a premium in true Toyota fashion.
I laughed too hard at this, thinking about that MASSIVE 5hp they added to the 86 (excluding the 86 GRMN only sold in japan.) That sure pleased the interest for more power here in the states....

I don't have anything against Toyota. I'm very interested in the MKV and I'm just waiting to see how things play out for it in the future before I jump in. But, huge updates in Toyota language doesn't translate to consumer expectations. I'm praying for more interior colors, before a MT.
 

Modal170

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
1,061
Reaction score
1,712
Location
NJ
Car(s)
86
Tada could also just point out that the supra will not have a MT in the foreseeable future to force buyers to pony up now to boost sale numbers now in the first 3 years before working on a MT. Don't think he'd have said no after the car is released rather than before so people were moreaware of what they were getting.
 

HKz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
787
Reaction score
1,250
Location
Arizona
Car(s)
FRS
Less than 15% of Corvettes were made last year with manual trans. No surprise it will not be coming back for the C8 or the Supra
Toyota would be very happy to sell as many automatic Supras as 15% of the number of Vettes made considering how few MKIVs Toyota sold in comparison during the 90s so to me this rhetoric is bullcrap. There are bound to be Manual Vette fans who are still looking for a true replacement so for Toyota not to sweep those guys up is a bit of a joke.
 

PerformanceSound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
1,468
Reaction score
2,594
Location
USA
Car(s)
2020 Tundra TRD Pro, 1994 MKIV Supra TT
Vehicle Showcase
2
Tada could also just point out that the supra will not have a MT in the foreseeable future to force buyers to pony up now to boost sale numbers now in the first 3 years before working on a MT. Don't think he'd have said no after the car is released rather than before so people were moreaware of what they were getting.
Exactly! If he or Toyota absolutely wanted to make it 100% clear that a manual would not be available....he or Toyota could have easily just said that no plans for a manual MKV Supra now or in the future. However, that hasn't been the case....at least not yet.
 

Modal170

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
1,061
Reaction score
1,712
Location
NJ
Car(s)
86
Not to mention that if memory serves correct, Japan doesn't like to leave things out unless it's one hundred percent confirmed. Example:

If there's even a 1 percent chance of a manual, they'll say it's likely.

This is telling me that there's no chance of a manual. So unless the question was listed of will we see a manual in two, three years and he says, ,o chance, I'd understand that. But what if the question changes to manual in the MKV Supra's production run? I'd doubt Tada would answer the same way.
 

A70TTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
2,712
Reaction score
9,938
Location
Japan/EU/USA
Car(s)
ST205 GT4, JZA70, JZA70 TT-R, S210 Athlete
I've tried easing you guys into this dozens of times, but that manual died a long time ago and never was going to make a comeback unless someone up high like Akio wanted it.

The most Tada-san ever said to me or anyone behind closed doors is that it was a faint possibility. after a few months went by, I asked him again and he said it was likely not going to happen regardless of petitions or outcry.

And the R&D was not complete for the manual btw; not even close. They had a few prototypes, but they in no way made it all the way through development. There is far more to that than one may think.



The GRMN will also be auto only and the same for the refresh.




Time to get on with your lives...
 

PerformanceSound

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
1,468
Reaction score
2,594
Location
USA
Car(s)
2020 Tundra TRD Pro, 1994 MKIV Supra TT
Vehicle Showcase
2
I've tried easing you guys into this dozens of times, but that manual died a long time ago and never was going to make a comeback unless someone up high like Akio wanted it.

The most Tada-san ever said to me or anyone behind closed doors is that it was a faint possibility. after a few months went by, I asked him again and he said it was likely not going to happen regardless of petitions or outcry.

And the R&D was not complete for the manual btw; not even close. They had a few prototypes, but they in no way made it all the way through development. There is far more to that than one may think.



The GRMN will also be auto only and the same for the refresh.




Time to get on with your lives...
Not saying your wrong....so please don’t take my comments as that. However, why doesn’t Toyota just come out and say a manual will NEVER be available for the A90 moving forward?
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top