Toyota Europe Releases "Born on the track - Toyota Supra A90" Videos & More Info Updates

[GT-Four]

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if Toyota helped with the 48 bolt electrical system in the s58


7700 rpm and 500hp is on par with the s58 estimates so hopefully that is considered not a regular b58 lol

OR its neither a B58 (because of the supposedly high RPM and lower boost levels at the same power level than a regular B58) nor an S58 (because I honestly don't think BMW would EVER share that engine with anyone else). Which would leave just 1 option a B58 that's been modified by Toyota

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[A70TTR]

it's definitely important to remain skeptical and try to read between the lines because they are playing a marketing game, and as someone quoted from me the other day: smart companies like to underpromise and overdeliver (so long as they control the flow of information).

to what degree varies widely, but there are many possibilities here and it's good to see folks trying to pry into it further. what's the worse that can happen? you're wrong? who cares. what if you reach a consensus on something and it ends up being correct? critical thinking is fantastic and I truly love seeing it.

 

[justbake]

OR its neither a B58 (because of the supposedly high RPM and lower boost levels at the same power level than a regular B58) nor an S58 (because I honestly don't think BMW would EVER share that engine with anyone else). Which would leave just 1 option a B58 that's been modified by Toyota

I don't believe bmw would share the s58 either, unless Toyota played a pivotal role in developing the 48v electrical system for the rumored hybrid turbo. Bmw does need a ton of help in that department to compete with Audi and Mercedes, it would be a win/win for both companies.

As more details of the S58 is released (probably with the X3/X4 M) we will get more details of how the S58 works

Edit: I would also like to add that an S58 opens the possibility for a 6MT since the G80 is speculated to have one while new models with B58s won't have a manual option with the exception of the 1 and 2 series.

 

[mrarm]

OR its neither a B58 (because of the supposedly high RPM and lower boost levels at the same power level than a regular B58) nor an S58 (because I honestly don't think BMW would EVER share that engine with anyone else). Which would leave just 1 option a B58 that's been modified by Toyota

 

[mkivalex]

Its just hard to imagine it being so vastly diffetent from the z4 hardware which we know is set in stone now.

Its very puzzling. I cant see why Toyota would have that RPM on the laptop unless it actually meant something . IMO an easter egg but who knows.

It would be so exciting if when it launches they blow all our minds with something out of left field. But im skeptical.

 

[mrarm]

I don't believe bmw would share the s58 either, unless Toyota played a pivotal role in developing the 48v electrical system for the rumored hybrid turbo. Bmw does need a ton of help in that department to compete with Audi and Mercedes, it would be a win/win for both companies.

As more details of the S58 is released (probably with the X3/X4 M) we will get more details of how the S58 works

Edit: I would also like to add that an S58 opens the possibility for a 6MT since the G80 is speculated to have one while new models with B58s won't have a manual option with the exception of the 1 and 2 series.

For me when we see what resembles the breech of the x5 b58 it is signed toyota.
Circles on the molded collector I think about using the process for 2jz.
But if toyota has to help bmw to make the breech nothing prevents bmw to use this same breech for the s58. indeed from the rumors the s58 is based on a b58 and not s55

 

[Spilner]

 

[MA617M]

also, check out the spy shots of the dash. the numbers on the tacho are physical, not a screen. doesn't look like there has been much allowance for RPM >7000.

 

[justbake]

also, check out the spy shots of the dash. the numbers on the tacho are physical, not a screen. doesn't look like there has been much allowance for RPM >7000.

But that is the non-GR model, so that makes sense with everything we have heard.
The only way a bmw inline 6 revs that high is in an S motor, which could be the high output GR model they are referring to

 

[ginsuown]

also, check out the spy shots of the dash. the numbers on the tacho are physical, not a screen. doesn't look like there has been much allowance for RPM >7000.

I might just be blind, but how can you tell the numbers are physical?

 

[GT-Four]

What if Toyota gave BMW some ideas on how to better the B58 and bmw implemented those on the S58 rather and agreed to share that engine with them on the condition that they would use the intake Manifolds and turbo from the B58 so as to be in line with the Z4 AND have a clear separation from the M cars.

This then would explain 3 things
1 the high peak rpm on the laptop and Tada San reiterating the high revving 6 cylinder phrase
2 the power they are getting currently with even lower level of boost than a regular B58
3 the fact that Toyota said they could launch this car with 500hp if they wanted to AND someone( I think it was @A70TTR or @Guff here mentioning that Toyota internally pushed the car to 700hp)

As far fetched as this may sound, if you ask yourself what the difference is between an M engine and a non M engine, the first things you'll mention are that it revs higher and it breathes better both of which APPARENTLY seem to be happening on the supra.

This thing is mind f*****g me Toyota really need to let something out soon

 

[justbake]

What if Toyota gave BMW some ideas on how to better the B58 and bmw implemented those on the S58 rather and agreed to share that engine with them on the condition that they would use the intake Manifolds and turbo from the B58 so as to be in line with the Z4 AND have a clear separation from the M cars.

This then would explain 3 things
1 the high peak rpm on the laptop and Tada San reiterating the high revving 6 cylinder phrase
2 the power they are getting currently with even lower level of boost than a regular B58
3 the fact that Toyota said they could launch this car with 500hp if they wanted to AND someone( I think it was @A70TTR or @Guff here mentioning that Toyota internally pushed the car to 700hp)

As far fetched as this may sound, if you ask yourself what the difference is between an M engine and a non M engine, the first things you'll mention are that it revs higher and it breathes better both of which APPARENTLY seem to be happening on the supra.

This thing is mind f*****give me Toyota really need to let something out soon

That's what I have been thinking, especially when you consider release date and technical info

 

[MA617M]

I might just be blind, but how can you tell the numbers are physical?

There's another video - I think the spanish one that goes for half an hour - where you see the dash with the car off. Everything is a screen except the numbers on the tacho.

 

[GT-Four]

Exactly. Maybe this iron block we've been hearing is actually the S58. And Toyota have been known to do just that. They take an engine designed to make alot more power then bring that power level way down for reliability sake hence you have alot of headroom. And 1 more thing Toyota has been talking alot about the aftermarket tuning and having a robust inline 6 in the supra. This would make sense then.

 

[MA617M]

What if Toyota gave BMW some ideas on how to better the B58 and bmw implemented those on the S58 rather and agreed to share that engine with them on the condition that they would use the intake Manifolds and turbo from the B58 so as to be in line with the Z4 AND have a clear separation from the M cars.

This then would explain 3 things
1 the high peak rpm on the laptop and Tada San reiterating the high revving 6 cylinder phrase
2 the power they are getting currently with even lower level of boost than a regular B58
3 the fact that Toyota said they could launch this car with 500hp if they wanted to AND someone( I think it was @A70TTR or @Guff here mentioning that Toyota internally pushed the car to 700hp)

As far fetched as this may sound, if you ask yourself what the difference is between an M engine and a non M engine, the first things you'll mention are that it revs higher and it breathes better both of which APPARENTLY seem to be happening on the supra.

This thing is mind f*****give me Toyota really need to let something out soon

The big difference with the S engines is that they're developed at M GmBH which is a (BMW-owned) seperate motorsport entity. There's very little correlation between BMW and M on the "M" engines.

Tada also mentioned that the engine featured at goodwood would be the flagship for the car.

I am really thinking the data on the laptop was purely to do with the GTE/GT3 spec car... Especially given Toyota's reliability and MTBF requirements for an engine, I can't see them spinning it too hard in the road version. They'd rather fill it with boost.

Engine stress is proportional to piston speed squared, so have an exponential growth as rpm increase. Easiest way for longevity = lower rpms.

I hope I am 100% wrong and we see a 7000rpm+ monster with collaboration from the M motorsport guys, but all the snippets and tidbits left leave me to think that the engine in these cars is the ones we are getting. Boost and fuel will be the variable for any higher output (from Toyota), rather than extra rpm. I doubt that M would want an iron block (they haven't had the need in the past, aftermarket tuning is not at the forefront of M motorsport) and it would be far more complex to accomodate for the increased mass in an existing chassis - rather than simultaneously while building a new bespoke chassis

As for the aftermarket, well, I spin my 2JZ to 7500 with no issues on the standard valvetrain and it seems fairly happy

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