Toyota Europe Releases "Born on the track - Toyota Supra A90" Videos & More Info Updates

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GT-Four

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The big difference with the S engines is that they're developed at M GmBH which is a (BMW-owned) seperate motorsport entity. There's very little correlation between BMW and M on the "M" engines.

Tada also mentioned that the engine featured at goodwood would be the flagship for the car.

I am really thinking the data on the laptop was purely to do with the GTE/GT3 spec car... Especially given Toyota's reliability and MTBF requirements for an engine, I can't see them spinning it too hard in the road version. They'd rather fill it with boost.

Engine stress is proportional to piston speed squared, so have an exponential growth as rpm increase. Easiest way for longevity = lower rpms.

I hope I am 100% wrong and we see a 7000rpm+ monster with collaboration from the M motorsport guys, but all the snippets and tidbits left leave me to think that the engine in these cars is the ones we are getting. Boost and fuel will be the variable for any higher output (from Toyota), rather than extra rpm. I doubt that M would want an iron block (they haven't had the need in the past, aftermarket tuning is not at the forefront of M motorsport) and it would be far more complex to accomodate for the increased mass in an existing chassis - rather than simultaneously while building a new bespoke chassis

As for the aftermarket, well, I spin my 2JZ to 7500 with no issues on the standard valvetrain and it seems fairly happy :p
Fair point BUT here's what confuses me. Look on the left side of the scene with the laptop. The door is covered with felt. Another thing is why would bmw allow Toyota to go through with making plenty of changes to the B58 (essentially making a whole new engine) and not keep any of that for themselves(Like instead of making a whole new B58 let's implement the positive changes you have brought to the table to the S58 and you can have it on the supra to some extent). The lower redline perhaps maybe be again to keep it inline with the Z4. UNLESS it's just a regular B58 and Toyota didn't do a damn thing :( but then how can we explain the power its making with so little boost
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MA617M

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Yeah, this kind of investigating work is fun... sadly there's a small few who take it too seriously!!

I'm hoping that it's the same engine in the mules - but it can spin to 7700rpm on exisiting valvetrain when modified. That'd be cool

7psi and 380hp kind of makes sense with a W2A intercooler and (if the Z4 specs sheet translates across) the compression ratio is 11.3(?):1

edit: I'm a massive fan of high revving sixes... when I heard toyota were partnering with BMW for this, I was pleased... I've always had a weakness for M-motorsport inline six engines.... they are just eargasmic. S54 anyone? <3
 
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MA617M

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Actually looking closer at the tach on the laptop - the needle is sitting at about 6200rpm, and the red needle (redline) is still sitting at around 7000rpm.

I wonder what the shift quality of the ZF8 is like at 7500+rpm?
 

justbake

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Actually looking closer at the tach on the laptop - the needle is sitting at about 6200rpm, and the red needle (redline) is still sitting at around 7000rpm.

I wonder what the shift quality of the ZF8 is like at 7500+rpm?
M division will be using the ZF8 instead of the DCT on the new M models. Also it has less drivetrain loss than the DCT as well.

To add to the S58, all the rumors have it have a hybrid turbo and will compete with mercedes and audi
 

GT-Four

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The current B58 with W2A makes lesser power than 380 with more boost :|

I really REALLY hope our guesses are somewhat correct and this is indeed an S58 that's been choked to perform exactly like a B58. It just makes financial sense too rather than having a different B58 just for Toyota. And it would keep Toyota happy too knowing their reliability levels are met due to the engine being so relaxed
 

justbake

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The current B58 with W2A makes lesser power than 380 with more boost :|

I really REALLY hope our guesses are somewhat correct and this is indeed an S58 that's been choked to perform exactly like a B58. It just makes financial sense too rather than having a different B58 just for Toyota. And it would keep Toyota happy too knowing their reliability levels are met due to the engine being so relaxed
Isn't it a good thing that the B58TU makes more power with less boost?
We have known for a while it wont be the regular B58, even in the trim with the B58 variant
 

GT-Four

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Isn't it a good thing that the B58TU makes more power with less boost?
We have known for a while it wont be the regular B58, even in the trim with the B58 variant
It is a very good thing indeed but how did they achieve it? Unless it's not really a B58 at all. And that Toyota and BMW will name it as a B58 because everything outside of the head and block is B58 and of course to keep inline with Z4. Do you think Toyota would provide some provisions on the car for add on coolers and bigger turbos etc if it were just a B58? I think I'm over thinking this lol​
 

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Verry interesting :popcorn:
also, check out the spy shots of the dash. the numbers on the tacho are physical, not a screen. doesn't look like there has been much allowance for RPM >7000. :(

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Maybe a theory but to me it seems like the rpm at the laptop are like the ones at the camo cars!Forget for a minute the 7756 number ,if you check the rpm range behind you will see that the peak rpm is at 7000 just like the camo cars, which it seems like they have a 6500rpm peak but at 6500 it is orange and at 7000 red if you look closely!Don't have a clue what that 7756 number is though
 

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Maybe a theory but to me it seems like the rpm at the laptop are like the ones at the camo cars!Forget for a minute the 7756 number ,if you check the rpm range behind you will see that the peak rpm is at 7000 just like the camo cars, which it seems like they have a 6500rpm peak but at 6500 it is orange and at 7000 red if you look closely!Don't have a clue what that 7756 number is though
Good point. So confusing lol. At this point an emoji response from @A70TTR to one of our theories might suffice :D
 

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If we're playing the game of theories, it's still possible that the top trim A90 Supra will closely match the performance specs envisioned with the Gran Turismo FT-1 concept as this was the version of the car that impressed Akio Toyoda enough to greenlight the Toyota FT-1 in the first place (Back in 2013, Akio drove a simulated version of the FT-1 around Fuji Speedway and beat his personal lap time from an actual Lexus LFA). The specs of the Toyota FT-1 from Gran Turismo Sport is 480+ horsepower and a rev limit of 7500+ RPMs.

Toyota has left easter eggs in Gran Turismo before. Back before the Lexus RC-F specs were officially unveiled, the updated 2UR-GSE V8 horsepower output remained a mystery to the public. In the game, however, if you selected the IS-F CCSR, Gran Turismo and Toyota/Lexus had discreetly unveiled the updated horsepower and torque figures of the revised V8.

Of course, this is all just a theory... :)

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SPMS

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If the top trim is 486hp, Toyota can take my money now and I'll gladly watch the camo variants be shown for the rest of the year. Have to do it regardless, but still. Think them coming with 450hp+ would definitely change a lot of customers minds, since so many are stuck on the 335hp that's been circulating. Guess we will see.
 
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mrarm

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also, check out the spy shots of the dash. the numbers on the tacho are physical, not a screen. doesn't look like there has been much allowance for RPM >7000. :(

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The dash indicator is also a screen :dunno:
 

justbake

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If we're playing the game of theories, it's still possible that the top trim A90 Supra will closely match the performance specs envisioned with the Gran Turismo FT-1 concept as this was the version of the car that impressed Akio Toyoda enough to greenlight the Toyota FT-1 in the first place (Back in 2013, Akio drove a simulated version of the FT-1 around Fuji Speedway and beat his personal lap time from an actual Lexus LFA). The specs of the Toyota FT-1 from Gran Turismo Sport is 480+ horsepower and a rev limit of 7500+ RPMs.

Toyota has left easter eggs in Gran Turismo before. Back before the Lexus RC-F specs were officially unveiled, the updated 2UR-GSE V8 horsepower output remained a mystery to the public. In the game, however, if you selected the IS-F CCSR, Gran Turismo and Toyota/Lexus had discreetly unveiled the updated horsepower and torque figures of the revised V8.

Of course, this is all just a theory... :)

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I didn't realize this game was a thing, those are the S58 specs in which were talk about.
Makes me think this test drive thing last week was to demo just the chassis not the powertrain. Underpromise overdeliver
 

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If the top trim is 486hp, Toyota can take my money now and I'll gladly watch the camo variants be shown for the rest of the year. Have to do it regardless, but still. Think them coming with 450hp+ would definitely change a lot of customers minds, since so many are stuck on the 335hp that's been circulating. Guess we will see.
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