Want to tune, so which year should I buy?

Decreasing Dave

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I've seen some threads saying that nobody has broken through the 6/2020+ ECUs yet and that the ECU born on date is different than the car date.

Am I safe to assume that a Launch Edition 2020 would have an ECU born on date earlier than 6/2020? If not, is there any trick to knowing the ECU date besides ripping it from the location to read it?

I am looking to buy but want to freedom of tuning.

Thanks,
Dave
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You'd also have to be wary of any units which were updated by the dealership which I believe would then lock them even if they were "born" early enough. I'm not 100% positive on that, but I'm pretty sure I read a few threads of people with unlocked units which were locked after the update.
 

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e that a Launch Edition 2020 would have an ECU born on date earlier than 6/2020?
Like said above, find someone near by with an ECUTek Dongle and take it with you when you look at the car. Chances are its unlocked and you will be good to go for a tune. That is what I did with my LE.

Just have money on the side if it is locked and needs to be unlocked
 

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You'd also have to be wary of any units which were updated by the dealership which I believe would then lock them even if they were "born" early enough. I'm not 100% positive on that, but I'm pretty sure I read a few threads of people with unlocked units which were locked after the update.
3 possibilities with the ECU from factory:

1. Unlocked (these seem to be pre Nov 2019ish builds, but there is variability)

2. Locked (Pre June 2020ish builds). These can be bench unlocked.

3. Locked Bosch Bootloader (June 2020ish and newer builds). These canā€™t be unlocked at all

My understanding is If a dealer locks a previously unlocked ECU, it can still be bench unlocked by a tuner. In other words, a dealer couldnā€™t lock a 2020 to the newer Bosch Bootloader.
 

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3 possibilities with the ECU from factory:

1. Unlocked (these seem to be pre Nov 2019ish builds, but there is variability)

2. Locked (Pre June 2020ish builds). These can be bench unlocked.

3. Locked Bosch Bootloader (June 2020ish and newer builds). These canā€™t be unlocked at all

My understanding is If a dealer locks a previously unlocked ECU, it can still be bench unlocked by a tuner. In other words, a dealer couldnā€™t lock a 2020 to the newer Bosch Bootloader.
So in other words... it's a tiny bit of a payback for taking the depreciation hit of getting a 2020 before they announced the power bump in the 2021. :p (Or at least a benefit to getting one of the first 2021's to hit the lots).
 

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Same thing happened with my WRX. Took about a year for them to unlock it. This affects more than just one model, someone will figure it out.
 

Nocturnal LE

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Same thing happened with my WRX. Took about a year for them to unlock it. This affects more than just one model, someone will figure it out.
I get that, but this quote from the Manhart article above makes me wonder if this type of lock is a completely differently animal.

ā€œThe reason for the update is connected to improved security for autonomous driving and other driving assistance features and keeping hackers away from potentially intervening with the vehicleā€™s systems. The lock has been introduced in the bootloader of the ECU and is implemented on processor level, which means that ā€œbench unlockingā€ with direct access on the ECU is no longer possibleā€
 

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ā€œThe reason for the update is connected to improved security for autonomous driving and other driving assistance features and keeping hackers away from potentially intervening with the vehicleā€™s systems. The lock has been introduced in the bootloader of the ECU and is implemented on processor level, which means that ā€œbench unlockingā€ with direct access on the ECU is no longer possibleā€
Coming from the IT world, if this is the case, then unlocking one of these at that level, would be a pipe dream to anyone except Bosch. If a tuner were to "find" a way to unlock one of these, they would need an "insider" from Bosch with insigts to said "bootloader". Unlike the movies, you couldn't "guess" a terminal password and hack the DOD because there is no "password", per se, to guess.
 

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Pass: Bmw123

Somewhat related as it's tech, for those who don't know or cared, there are mods and firmwares for phones as well and for example Qualcomm ones are more secure and many are uncrackable also because of bootloaders and whatnot, but Snapdragon chipset is crackable. This has been the case for several years now with not much headway. Could also be that phones change so often and there isn't too much gains/money/fame/etc. in cracking them and the amount of people who even can....

If Bosch cared and it could only if there's immense pressure or need, for having tuner accessible tables with very limited number of special access codes or something... Lot's of activations are crackable even the online ones. Yet, they can, if they wanted to, make it secure with tuner access....

Who knows if they're actively trying to kill the tuning world or couldn't care less, for maybe even emission reasons among of course reliability, security, etc.. but if say Subaru was making shit ton of money off WRXs because people only buy it to tune, it'd be stupid for them to lock, unless they offered high hp variants yet still people would have liked to customize themselves. People like customizing, but what percent of buyers do for OEs to care.... Segment-E cars, sports cars are low sellers for most brands, just flagship....

Maybe next best thing is to invest in dedicated standalone ECUs, but that's not so easy either to map all ECU features. You'd have to be willing to give up some features, safety, security, etc...

Random thoughts off/?
 
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Decreasing Dave

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This doesnā€™t sound very promising at all for many new cars, not just bmws... perhaps the 2020s will indeed be the Supra that everyone wants years from now...

https://www.manhart-performance.de/...mw-mini-models-not-tuneable-locked-bosch-ecu/
This ^^^ exactly. I would much rather have the 2021, or hell, I'm hoping for at least a T-Top or a Manual or both for 2022. But what will I be giving up in tunability just to have those features?

I'm trying to catch up on all of the ins and outs of this car but what it looks like is that tuning like ECUtech basically levels the HP playing field between the 2020 and the 2021. Is that the case with the JB4 as well? The JB4 still doesn't allow for a Pure800 Turbo, Meth, and a downpipe though.

Hopefully someone will be able to figure all of this out soon. Like someone else said, if the consumer can't tune a car (in that case a WRX), then how many sales will they lose and how long before they can no longer justify production? Maybe that's why Tada-san plans for each new year for the Supra that it will be improved from the last. Just to keep people interested.

Dave
 

max

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The JB4 still doesn't allow for a Pure800 Turbo, Meth, and a downpipe though.
Not so sure about that....... the jb4 can be used in conjunction to provide logging, safety inputs, etc. for other mods. Check out the link below and scan the B58/B48 threads..
https://www.n54tech.com/forums/

Somewhat related as it's tech, for those who don't know or cared, there are mods and firmwares for phones as well and for example Qualcomm ones are more secure and many are uncrackable also because of bootloaders and whatnot, but Snapdragon chipset is crackable.
I personally would not want a cell chip running my ECU.....:nono:
 

SavageGTR34

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Well not for nothing guys but once I get back home and im able to send AMS my production date they are supposed to let me know if its able to be tuned or if the DME needs to be cracked so to speak. Should be able to update you all on April 10th. (over the road truck driver an home time isn't till then)
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