What is an absolute needed change for time/grip track use?

dzeleski

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Curious, what’s your pace at NJMP such that your rotors can’t keep up?
Low 1:30s I can sustain without too much issue, typically hovering around 1:33 or so. If I start to try and push much past that I start missing turn in even with hammering on the pedal. The brakes just get vague.

I can get a single lap or two into the 1:29s but after that I’ll start blowing my points. Maybe even these CP pads aren’t cut for that pace but I think there are also cooling issues going on.

 

dzeleski

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Which CP pads? You aren’t talking about the hybrid street/track pads are you? If so, get some actual track pads! You literally have a completely different experience than other track drivers, including myself. I had no problems at NJMP. I do 20-30 min sessions at Palmer and Pocono which has wayyyyyy higher speeds than NJMP.

What is actually happening when you state “they can’t keep up”?
They are the CSG CP pads. I might go back to Carbon Lorraine as that’s what I ran on my race bikes and never had issues. I talked to a few people and they mentioned these pads would be fine for HPDEs but maybe not for someone that actually knows how to brake late and hard. I really don’t know.

What pace are you running at NJMP? I can’t go past 1:30 without the pedal going complete blank and vague on me. And this is only with rt660s.
 

garudathree

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That’s quick, I’m at 1:28 at thunderbolt with cheap GLOC pads and stock rotors, but don’t think I had any brake related performance degradation between start of sessions and at the end. Can still lock up tires into ABS.
 

razorlab

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They are the CSG CP pads. I might go back to Carbon Lorraine as that’s what I ran on my race bikes and never had issues. I talked to a few people and they mentioned these pads would be fine for HPDEs but maybe not for someone that actually knows how to brake late and hard. I really don’t know.

What pace are you running at NJMP? I can’t go past 1:30 without the pedal going complete blank and vague on me. And this is only with rt660s.
Pedal going mush or just numb? Mush is fluid, numb is pads overheated.

Try C21/C11. Actual track pads.

Which NJMP track are you referencing? Thunderbolt or lightning?
 

dzeleski

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Pedal going mush or just numb? Mush is fluid, numb is pads overheated.

Try C21/C11. Actual track pads.

Which NJMP track are you referencing? Thunderbolt or lightning?
I’m running endless rf650, I don’t think it’s fluid. Not mush just numb, no feeling that it’s doing anything.

Sorry Thunderbolt.
 

JackieD86

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They are the CSG CP pads. I might go back to Carbon Lorraine as that’s what I ran on my race bikes and never had issues. I talked to a few people and they mentioned these pads would be fine for HPDEs but maybe not for someone that actually knows how to brake late and hard. I really don’t know.

What pace are you running at NJMP? I can’t go past 1:30 without the pedal going complete blank and vague on me. And this is only with rt660s.
Highly recommend C21/C11. You might just be finding the upper limits of the CP.
CP is a great pad but also engineered to work well on the street, meaning there has got to be compromises somewhere. C21/C11 will work a lot better in a strictly track environment, at the cost of dusting and occasional noise.
 

dzeleski

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Highly recommend C21/C11. You might just be finding the upper limits of the CP.
CP is a great pad but also engineered to work well on the street, meaning there has got to be compromises somewhere. C21/C11 will work a lot better in a strictly track environment, at the cost of dusting and occasional noise.
Thanks Jackie. Not headed back to the track until August most likely but ill shoot you an email in a few weeks.

Also Applogies to OP for taking over your thread, wasnt my intention.
 
OP
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AdamP

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Also Applogies to OP for taking over your thread, wasnt my intention.
No need. Just trying to soak it all up. I would rather spend a little money on stuff than show up and only be able to run 1/4th of a session because something simple that could had been fixed before. And just sitting around editing videos from last weekends track time.
 
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Tires, springs or coils, pads, brake fluid, rear aero. The rotors also can’t handle a full session, need to take a partial cool lap mid way to get them to the end.

IMO don’t bother going to the track without better tires, pads, and brake fluid at a minimum.
At the very minimum I'd change brake fluid. I can confirm that I had to back off for a couple of laps to get the fluid time to recover, like dzeleski said. The tires also aren't the best, but the track is a good place to use them up.
 

3TMagnetMan

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I took my car out on the NYST for the first time the factory brakes are pretty good. Im not sure how long they will last. Im looking for a Steet/track pads that will work well with stock rotors any suggestions ?? Just doing NYST till the end of the summer then may hit NJMP in Sept.
 

romanLegion9574

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I took my car out on the NYST for the first time the factory brakes are pretty good. Im not sure how long they will last. Im looking for a Steet/track pads that will work well with stock rotors any suggestions ?? Just doing NYST till the end of the summer then may hit NJMP in Sept.
I personally run Endless MX72. CSG CP are also good options.
 

Deighvid

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Went to Auto Club Speedway 2 weeks ago and will echo what everyone else has said says

Tires 100%
Good alignment (factory alignment is often way off)
Brake fluid

In getting use to the car, I personally only began to exceed the stock brake setup towards the end of the day. That tells me that more experienced drivers would certainly reach it much earlier.

I'm on Eibach springs and still feel a fair amount of body roll so that's also something to consider. I have no other suspension mods
 

razorlab

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Wanted to post some factual usage updates here.

The OEM rotors are perfectly fine for track use. You have to use the correct pads and fluid for the track. People that say otherwise don't have the right setup.

My current braking setup:
OEM calipers
OEM rotors
Project Mu Club Racer brake pads front/rear
Endless RF-650 brake fluid

My home track is Lime Rock Park. It's a short track at 1.5 miles so not many good opportunities for brake cooling. I hit 130 mph in the straight and my OEM caliper and OEM rotor setup hauls me down no problem. My last event there was a fully open hot track for four hours, for advanced drivers only. I could go on and off the track as I pleased. I did a ton of laps and the brakes held up fine all day long.

Just this weekend I was at Pocono raceway running the Mega Configuration, 2.5 miles. This configuration uses some of the nascar banked turns so there are some high speeds. I was hitting 143 mph all day long in advanced group and my brakes where fine.

Palmer is another track I attend, 2.3 miles. Palmer has a crazy amount of elevation changes, basically a roller coaster ride of a road course. Lots of heavy braking. Depending on counter or normal clockwise config, the car hits 120-130mph in the front straight and into very heavy braking zones. Last event I was there it was 95*. Brakes worked all day long. Seven sessions.

Photo of Palmer showing how much of a roller coaster it is and NOT easy on brakes:

15-turns-509-of-overall.jpeg


My one gripe with my current setup is that the Club Racer pads lack the initial bite that pads like the ST47 and CSG C21's do. That said, they still haul the car down just fine all day long, on stock OEM rotors.

Video of Pocono:

 

VA90

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Wanted to post some factual usage updates here.

The OEM rotors are perfectly fine for track use. You have to use the correct pads and fluid for the track. People that say otherwise don't have the right setup.

My current braking setup:
OEM calipers
OEM rotors
Project Mu Club Racer brake pads front/rear
Endless RF-650 brake fluid

Are you using the Club Racer as a track-only pad and swapping to something else for the street? Or can the Club Racer pull off double-duty? Thanks in advance
 

razorlab

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Are you using the Club Racer as a track-only pad and swapping to something else for the street? Or can the Club Racer pull off double-duty? Thanks in advance
I don't drive the supra much on the street. I do drive to/from the track and I take out for some fun drives weekly but it's not my daily.

That said, the Club Racers aren't bad on the street. They barely make noise and not all the time. Some track pads are super annoying on the street. I would say these are the most street-friendly pads, as far as noise, that I have used. Like most track pads, they create a good amount of brake dust.

Compared to the ST47 pads I used on my Evo, which would drive me and everyone around me INSANE driving to/from the track:

 

 
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