Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

A70TTR

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so many things I wish we could discuss; perhaps in the future.

the TMG650 did impact something however.
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soundman414

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Researching the new Supra has left a void in the enthusiasm I once had for it. With the details slowing dripping out, it becomes clearer what the Supra actually is... a hard top Z4... and with it, all the baggage that comes from a luxury german sports car.

Just condering things like oil changes and this seems like a rich man's car that involves numerous unnecessary steps, complications and inconveniences that don't make this a great car to own in the long term; things like maintenance, bolt ons, accessories, etc that people typical add to their civics, camaros, brzs, 370zs, etc.

I love my BRZ, except for one thing, the feeble engine and it's low power... But I can do an oil change in 20 minutes, I can access the battery easily, I can add different shift knobs, easily add a cold air intake, change out a single throttle body, etc... Although don't get my started on changing them damn spark plugs! This is what makes a car accessible and fun to many who want to take care of their car and not have to donate thousands of dollars to a stealership to do minor tasks.

The Supra really lacks an important factor; the Toyota factor. The simple, well engineered and thought-out executions that make ownership a breeze and reliability top notch.
 

justbake

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Just condering things like oil changes and this seems like a rich man's car that involves numerous unnecessary steps, complications and inconveniences that don't make this a great car to own in the long term; things like maintenance, bolt ons, accessories, etc that people typical add to their civics, camaros, brzs, 370zs, etc.

I love my BRZ, except for one thing, the feeble engine and it's low power... But I can do an oil change in 20 minutes, I can access the battery easily, I can add different shift knobs, easily add a cold air intake, change out a single throttle body, etc... Although don't get my started on changing them damn spark plugs! This is what makes a car accessible and fun to many who want to take care of their car and not have to donate thousands of dollars to a stealership to do minor tasks.
Whats more complex about changing the oil on a BMW, adding an intake, or replacing the throttle body than a Toyota?

Altough Id agree that german cars aren't as easy as Toyotas to work on, they aren't complicated by any means when it comes to basic maintenance.
 

soundman414

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Whats more complex about changing the oil on a BMW, adding an intake, or replacing the throttle body than a Toyota?

Altough Id agree that german cars aren't as easy as Toyotas to work on, they aren't complicated by any means when it comes to basic maintenance.
I was looking into where the oil filter filter was... and unlike the M4, where it was at the front of the the engine, it's burried in the back, about a foot lower than the head, by the firewall. It requires a special tool to get the oil cap off. You need to jam pack the area with towels, because when you remove the filter cap, oil is going to get everywhere. You have to pull out the oil filter and probably get oil all over the place. You need to replace rubber O rings. I've yet to see the undertray for the Supra, but if it is like other models with the B58, you might have to remove the undertray every time you want to do an oil change, as the flap doesn't open in a way that allows for you to easily access the oil drain plug. The oil drain plug is plastic and therefor much more likely to get screwed up with time and degrade.... To me this is so much more work than what I do now, where I just remove the metal all-in-one oil filter with my hand, any excess oil stays in the little basin the oil filter is located in, the drain plug is metal and easily accessible and you can add a drain valve so you dont have to unscrew it each time.

As for the throttle bodies, it's just an example of German engineering being more complicated... with VANOS you have six throttle bodies... Correct me if I am wrong.
 

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I was looking into where the oil filter filter was... and unlike the M4, where it was at the front of the the engine, it's burried in the back, about a foot lower than the head, by the firewall. It requires a special tool to get the oil cap off. You need to jam pack the area with towels, because when you remove the filter cap, oil is going to get everywhere. You have to pull out the oil filter and probably get oil all over the place. You need to replace rubber O rings. I've yet to see the undertray for the Supra, but if it is like other models with the B58, you might have to remove the undertray every time you want to do an oil change, as the flap doesn't open in a way that allows for you to easily access the oil drain plug. The oil drain plug is plastic and therefor much more likely to get screwed up with time and degrade.... To me this is so much more work than what I do now, where I just remove the metal all-in-one oil filter with my hand, any excess oil stays in the little basin the oil filter is located in, the drain plug is metal and easily accessible and you can add a drain valve so you dont have to unscrew it each time.

As for the throttle bodies, it's just an example of German engineering being more complicated... with VANOS you have six throttle bodies... Correct me if I am wrong.
You need a 32mm oil filter socket. Thats it. While this may sound like an extra step, there are times when Toyota's also need the oil filter removed with a tool.

As far as the under tray goes, we dont know as of yet but I have to do this every time on my G37 so its not strictly a german thing.

Start draining the oil before removing the filter and the excess oil isn't an issue.

VANOS is variable valve timing, which your BRZ has.

Edit: Forgot to add the drain plug is steel on the B58
 
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PerformanceSound

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Have you heard the plans for the R36?
Nothing concrete....however, Nissan will continue the research and development needed to bring the R36 into a new era of super cars. From the sounds of rumors, even though electrification is the thing of the future, Nissan will not be implementing it in the new R36....which is great news. I hate hybrids. What I love about Nissan is that they truly care about their motorsports and automotive enthusiasts. The 350Z and R35 GTR emerged at a time when Nissan was just rescued by Renault. They did not let the economic climate dictate whether or not their two legendary sports cars would see the light of day. Not to mention, they did NOT go outside of Japan for manufacturing. This is why I respect Nissan so much and will buy their GTR soon.

Researching the new Supra has left a void in the enthusiasm I once had for it. With the details slowing dripping out, it becomes clearer what the Supra actually is... a hard top Z4... and with it, all the baggage that comes from a luxury German sports car.
Your not alone my friend, this has been a HUGE concern for everyone. Any discussion, media outlet, article, etc... all have concerns about this co-development. The Toyota Supra name is what it is today because of the MKIV and it's capabilities as a Japanese designed and built sports car. The MKIV was nothing....NOTHING....until people realized that a 2JZ can be tuned to make 1000WHP reliably. This only happened because of Toyota's over-engineering, and not BMW's. What Toyota is doing with the MKV is purely badge engineering....that's it. Even though many of us are well aware of this, I still continue to show my dissatisfaction with the idea and execution of the new car, to hopefully make new unaware potential buyers more aware of what they will be getting themselves into. Yes, we don't know all the details of the car yet, however, we know enough to confidently say that the new Supra is a Z4 with Supra badges, and with it comes Z4 issues and historically terrible depreciation in value. You want a car that will hold it's value and be revered years from now?...look at the Shelby GT350/350R. Numbered cars always maintain if not appreciate in value.
 

Supraman

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Putting it out there.... Everyone referring to the Supra as a "Hardtop Z4" , note that this Z4, isn't your Dad's Z4.
This Z4 is to be in a superior class than its predecessors. A big change for the Z4. The MKV Supra should be a better car than the MKIV but will it make as a big leap like we're seeing with the Z4???

The 86/BRZ are identical twins (minus the front bumper/headlights slightly) while the Z4/Supra seem like fraternal twins so far. Same DNA, different appearance.
 

justbake

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we don't know all the details of the car yet, however, we know enough to confidently say that the new Supra is a Z4 with Supra badges
Do you know the difference between an opinion and a fact? This is a serious question, not even trolling
 

PerformanceSound

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Do you know the difference between an opinion and a fact? This is a serious question, not even trolling
Do you??? I said, "we don't know all the details of the car yet, however, we know enough to confidently say that the new Supra is a Z4 with Supra badges."

Slowly move away from the keyboard son, your reckless with it.
 

justbake

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Do you??? I said, "we don't know all the details of the car yet, however, we know enough to confidently say that the new Supra is a Z4 with Supra badges."

Slowly move away from the keyboard son, your reckless with it.
I know what you said, hence that is it quoted in my reply.

How is your statement a fact by any definition?

You're reckless with your words
 

PerformanceSound

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I know what you said, hence that is it quoted in my reply.

How is your statement a fact by any definition?

You're reckless with your words
That's my point Einstein, it's NOT a fact!!!

You do know that being confident of something and stating a fact of something are two different things right?

Example, if I say that "I am confident that if you light that firecracker it will pop", implies that there is a very good chance that that firecracker will pop if you light it....but, there is a chance it won't. However, if I say that "I know for a fact that if you light that firecracker it will pop", that means that you know for a FACT 100% that the firecracker will pop.

OMG, I can't believe posts have reached this low...
 

justbake

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That's my point Einstein, it's NOT a fact!!!

You do know that being confident of something and stating a fact of something are two different things right?

Example, if I say that "I am confident that if you light that firecracker it will pop", implies that there is a very good chance that that firecracker will pop if you light it....but, there is a chance it won't. However, if I say that "I know for a fact that if you light that firecracker it will pop", that implies that you know for a FACT that the firecracker will pop.
There is a difference between 'I' and 'we.' You may think so and that's fine, but saying 'we' is speaking for all of us in factual manner that 'we' all share the same opinion on the topic.

OMG, I can't believe posts have reached this low...
Same, I have to explain to grown adults the power of their words and why choosing them wisely is important.
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