Why I'm NOT Hyped About The New Toyota Supra

[Zaki]

With Toyota being so big it's even more disappointing. They could easily afford to spend half a billion on a money-loser and just write it up to goodwill, brand enhancement. They did the same thing in F1 so many years ago. They are willing to do it for stuff like the land cruiser which barely moves any inventory, just to maintain their prestige. Why not on a sportscar?

We're not talking about Mazda here that can barely turn a profit. Toyota absolutely has the wherewithal to throw money at a sportscar, even if it's a low-volume break even case. Ford does it, Chevy does it. They are both big economy brands.

At least Honda has finally delivered the civic R and the NSX, though both took far too long.

Well said Craigy.
My only hope and the light at the end of the tunnel is that Akio seems to agree with us.
A proper sports car can do wonders for the marketing of a brand in so many ways.
It can increase brand awareness, bring customers into dealerships and generate interest in other products that may benefit from use of some of the technologies used in higher performance models.

Sponsored

 

[soundman414]

A lot of it comes down to the mentality of the company. Japan has had it's fair share of economic woes and I believe that has made a generation of very hesitant and overly-safe companies that try to ensure their viability by making really safe bets. A sports car isn't a safe bet, as it requires standout features and performance, and/or built reputation and desire. Performance in terms of raw numbers is pretty accessible these days. Handling and refinement are a different subject altogether, and require a skilled development team to pull off.

A company that doesn't produce sports cars for nearly 15 years, has shed most of its talent that can make a good sports car, as they have likely retired or moved to other companies where their talents can be utilized — which I belief gives credence to the multiple joint efforts they are currently in with Subaru and BMW. This creates even more of an issue with re-launching performance cars, as you need to develop a team, a platform and market share — to which a partnership with another company makes for a slower process, hence the long development times of the 86 and Supra. Japanese companies are finally getting some of the confidence they once had for enthusiast cars and they know they have a long way to catch up to other competing brands. They are in a race against time as other companies build upon their own efforts to outdo what is currently in development. So by the time the Supra launches, there may very well be a car that undercuts it by thousands of dollars, produces more HP, the same or better handling, more tech, etc.

But it is still important that Toyota launches this as fast and as good as they can, so that they can begin the process of returning to those markets. I have my reservations though, as Toyota has been rather blind to glaring issues with their cars — like the 86 and it's power issues, prius tires, etc — or their lack of Apple carplay, android auto that almost every other manufacturer has started to adopt. It's because of these inactions that I worry for the Supra as it ages — that it would once again suffer a MKIV issue of not-competing with rivals as the years go by and sales plummet. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes, but their current situation does not foster confidence.

 

[adprokid]

Tokyo auto show should be renamed Tokyo concepts show, the bosses of those companies are nothing but gutless cowards.

 

[HKz]

Tokyo auto show should be renamed Tokyo concepts show, the bosses of those companies are nothing but gutless cowards.

lol...the Tokyo Auto show isn't NAIAS, they only have it every 2 years and it doesn't draw the biggest crowd. the concepts they feature there are usually for the japanese market, they care much more about function & efficiency

 

[vb22]

While I do agree that Tokyo isn't as big as it use to be the 86 and LFA did debut there. So I can see why some are surprised and or upset to not see anything Supra related. But yeah, Detroit or some other American auto show seems more likely at this point, because the next TMS won't be until 2019.

 

[Levi]

I am not amazed by most of what is German nowadays. I like the Mercedes GLC Coupe and the Porsche Macan, and look forward to the Porsche e-Mission. I like the factory armored versions from BMW Security and Mercedes Guard. As for the rest, I consider them futile and most of the time missing the point.

 

[Scino]

Japanese carmakers like Toyota and Honda can build any car you ask for, but the question should be, "Is it worth their time?"

Toyota profit last year was like 10 times of GM or VAG that doesn't count their share in Yamaha and Subaru.

Honda is the king of Motorcycle makers, there isn't a close second. They pump out really good bike every few months because people actually buy them, unlike their sports car (looking at you S2000).

 

[Craigy]

Japanese carmakers like Toyota and Honda can build any car you ask for, but the question should be, "Is it worth their time?"

Toyota profit last year was like 10 times of GM or VAG that doesn't count their share in Yamaha and Subaru.

Honda is the king of Motorcycle makers, there isn't a close second. They pump out really good bike every few months because people actually buy them, unlike their sports car (looking at you S2000).

Lots of people bought S2000s. But they stopped updating it and kept increasing the price while the rest of the market moved on.

Also FWIW I don't see a lot of Honda bikes. Mostly Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha.

 

[A70TTR]

^ which is pretty odd because Honda is one of the best equipped aside from the Kawi...

Suzukis are typically cheaper and have had their share of issues as a result, and Yamahas are usually a bit behind the curve and had transmission issues up until recently.

 

[Scino]

Lots of people bought S2000s. But they stopped updating it and kept increasing the price while the rest of the market moved on.

Also FWIW I don't see a lot of Honda bikes. Mostly Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha.

There isn't many S2000. You can look at sales data.

Honda is the largest motorcycle maker in the world. Their main market is Asia, and they dominate the whole Asia, it's not even funny. Super Cub is the best selling motorcycle in the world for a reason. I moved to Cambodia 3 months ago, Honda motorcycles/scooters/barebones/dirtbike/cruiser are everywhere. It's like 100 times more bikes on the road than any brand in existence. Thing is the same for Thailand, Vietnam, India and Japan.

 

[Craigy]

Just googled. They sold over 110,000 cars. 6,000-9,000 a year in the USA. That's a ton. Comparable to the much cheaper Miata. Sales definitely trickled at the end, but they were trying to sell the same car for a full decade, for a really high price to boot.

I think the dearth of Honda motorcycles in my area is due to their weird dealer setup, I'm not sure if we even have a local Honda powersports dealer anymore. I no longer ride, but I'd say I even see more BMWs than Honda sportbikes.

 

[Scino]

Just googled. They sold over 110,000 cars. 6,000-9,000 a year in the USA. That's a ton. Comparable to the much cheaper Miata. Sales definitely trickled at the end, but they were trying to sell the same car for a full decade, for a really high price to boot.

I think the dearth of Honda motorcycles in my area is due to their weird dealer setup, I'm not sure if we even have a local Honda powersports dealer anymore. I no longer ride, but I'd say I even see more BMWs than Honda sportbikes.

Here's S2000 sales data for the US. S2000 was able to barely outsell Miata because it doesn't really compete with Miata in the same era. Nobody really took Miata seriously until recent years. People who are talking about how awesome the NA/NB was, they just follow the recent "love Miata is cool trend". ND is the only Miata worth considering (if you're lucky enough to get a manual that isn't broken.)

Thing is, Honda would continue to make and sell S2000 if doing so is financially viable and helps with brand image. That's why NSX exists, but not S2000, though they may be plotting a successor because Toyota is doing Supra.

 

[HKz]

folks you all not realize S2Ks were $10 K more than Miatas? Miata was selling at double the rate of S2000s...both were popular for what they were. http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/mazda/mazda-mx-5-miata/ http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-s2000/

 

[A70TTR]

yeah, the S2K was not a cheap sportscar; it competed against the 350zs of the era, both performance and price wise.

I personally think the issue with the car was that it is pretty gutless at lower rpms due to the F20/22 powerband, but I love that motor.

 

[Craigy]

When S2000 arrived it was a real head turner, looked great, and was a huge performance bargain beating the Boxster and Z3 and whatnot at the time for a much lower pricetag.

Then the competition moved onward and upward, and the only real thing that moved on the S2000 was the pricetag, which climbed higher and higher. The car no longer stood out since Honda was unwilling to update it, and then after it was cancelled, any hope of a successor was quashed by the recession.

Sponsored