2019 Toyota Supra Prototype Reveals Production Intent Design/Parts

[HKz]

I agree with this except for the fact you are comparing the 86 to the Supra. To me the Supra was an iconic flagship unit. Their was no question what the Scion FRS was going to be when it rolled out.

how the two cars were birthed and their meaning to toyota is the comparison...obviously the 86 wouldn't be in the same league as the Supra but toyota is taking a similar path to get there once again..

Sponsored

 

[Sun Devil]

Like I said .... it would have been better if the Supra was 100% Toyota, but it isn't. Toyota is a very successful company. They obviously had their reasons not to use the internal lc chassis. I'm not sure why, but I'm with you. Give me a LC F stripped of all the sound deadening, cup holders, back seat, etc. etc. Put on some Trofeos or PSS. Manual transmission. No hybrid bs. Stiff suspension. Excellent seats. And call it a Supra. But they chose another route. If it was cost cutting/money saving chassis .... why not the LC? Again .... they know why and you and I do not. They have their reasons and they do this for a living.

I agree if the Supra has a bmw engine, chassis, and interior ..... Supra purists are going to be pissed. I don't blame them.

As for us lesser purists .... if the car looks semi-exotic (FT-1), has sufficient HP, performs .... then I'll be interested. If not .... plenty of other cars out there.

 

[Sunspot]

Like I said .... it would have been better if the Supra was 100% Toyota, but it isn't. Toyota is a very successful company. They obviously had their reasons not to use the internal lc chassis. I'm not sure why, but I'm with you. Give me a LC F stripped of all the sound deadening, cup holders, back seat, etc. etc. Put on some Trofeos or PSS. Manual transmission. No hybrid bs. Stiff suspension. Excellent seats. And call it a Supra. But they chose another route. If it was cost cutting/money saving chassis .... why not the LC? Again .... they know why and you and I do not. They have their reasons and they do this for a living.

I agree if the Supra has a bmw engine, chassis, and interior ..... Supra purists are going to be pissed. I don't blame them.

As for us lesser purists .... if the car looks semi-exotic (FT-1), has sufficient HP, performs .... then I'll be interested. If not .... plenty of other cars out there.

how the two cars were birthed and their meaning to toyota is the comparison...obviously the 86 wouldn't be in the same league as the Supra but toyota is taking a similar path to get there once again..

ah got it.

 

[HKz]

Like I said .... it would have been better if the Supra was 100% Toyota, but it isn't. Toyota is a very successful company. They obviously had their reasons not to use the internal lc chassis. I'm not sure why, but I'm with you. Give me a LC F stripped of all the sound deadening, cup holders, back seat, etc. etc. Put on some Trofeos or PSS. Manual transmission. No hybrid bs. Stiff suspension. Excellent seats. And call it a Supra. But they chose another route. If it was cost cutting/money saving chassis .... why not the LC? Again .... they know why and you and I do not. They have their reasons and they do this for a living.

I agree if the Supra has a bmw engine, chassis, and interior ..... Supra purists are going to be pissed. I don't blame them.

As for us lesser purists .... if the car looks semi-exotic (FT-1), has sufficient HP, performs .... then I'll be interested. If not .... plenty of other cars out there.

I totally get their decision to work with BMW, it still doesn't mean it has to sit well with us. Obviously working with BMW or using their new Lexus architecture would save costs either way so from our point of view of course we have to trust that they made the business analysis to believe working with BMW would actually either save more money or result in a better final product. If Toyota is able to pretty much replicate the FT1 with BMW that is fine and dandy, but as we're witnessing they are straying away (no +2 backseats, potentially BMW engine, BMW interior, etc..) which only makes me shake my head a bit..

As for the lesser purists it will be very interesting to see who would actually pick up a Supra over other $50-60 K cars as it is quite competitive right now...at the moment the Camaro ZL1 being only $63 K and doing 0-60 in 3.5 secs is now the best bang for your buck for that price range..it will be very hard for this new Supra to beat those numbers..

Agreed, those reported numbers have nothing on Toyota's bread and butter models. But if true, or even half it, it would still be pretty high when compared to the MK4's 10 year global production numbers at 45k. I'm just thinking this new car will be more mainstream like the MK3 in terms of sales.

well to be fair the price literally doubled from MK3 to MK4 for both the NA and turbo variants...the pricing rumors are suggesting the MK5 will follow or even surpass the MK4.

Do you know what a body kit is?

I'm being facetious but my point still stands.

 

[Supra93]

well to be fair the price literally doubled from MK3 to MK4 for both the NA and turbo variants...the pricing rumors are suggesting the MK5 will follow or even surpass the MK4.

I'm being facetious but my point still stands.

Yup, about 10k give or take. With the new one I think its about the same if you factor in inflation.

X2, its the same idea when you get down too it. A BMW Z made to look like a smaller tone down FT1.

 

[Craigy]

Price wise the news and reports are completely conflicting. When FT1 launched, we saw the gran turismo specs and we heard the CALTY engineer saying it was designed with a budget in the $50s in mind.

Subsequently the news has trended toward a much slower, less performing car but an even higher pricetag in the $60s and $70s. This doesn't make sense. If it was a Lexus product, sure, whatever, but this is a Toyota.

Like HKz said there is a lot of competition right now in that segment. Even if it's in the $50s, that's the same money as a Cayman, and for the same money you buy the Porsche unless the performance is better. Toyota won't get in the domestic horsepower wars but that's what they're up against nevertheless. GT350, base and grand sport Corvette are going to be difficult to surpass.

Seriously if they release some sort of $70,000 Cayman then we'll all just have a laugh and move on with our lives. But if it's a $60,000 911 fighter or Corvette fighter like the FT1 concept was, then it'll be a serious contender.

 

[HKz]

Price wise the news and reports are completely conflicting. When FT1 launched, we saw the gran turismo specs and we heard the CALTY engineer saying it was designed with a budget in the $50s in mind.

Subsequently the news has trended toward a much slower, less performing car but an even higher pricetag in the $60s and $70s. This doesn't make sense. If it was a Lexus product, sure, whatever, but this is a Toyota.

Like HKz said there is a lot of competition right now in that segment. Even if it's in the $50s, that's the same money as a Cayman, and for the same money you buy the Porsche unless the performance is better. Toyota won't get in the domestic horsepower wars but that's what they're up against nevertheless. GT350, base and grand sport Corvette are going to be difficult to surpass.

Seriously if they release some sort of $70,000 Cayman then we'll all just have a laugh and move on with our lives. But if it's a $60,000 911 fighter or Corvette fighter like the FT1 concept was, then it'll be a serious contender.

it is conflicting because economy minded toyota is working with a luxury company to bring this out...bmw's interests will be a limiting factor here. still not sure if bmw will be cool with releasing a car better than their own performance models (or undercutting them)

does toyota/bmw come out with a cheaper price point with less power and disappoint those that wanted a car to push the performance boundaries or do they push the boundaries and end up being more expensive than the rest of the class like the mk4? not sure if there will be much middle ground for them to play with here

 

[Sunspot]

it is conflicting because economy minded toyota is working with a luxury company to bring this out...bmw's interests will be a limiting factor here. still not sure if bmw will be cool with releasing a car better than their own performance models (or undercutting them)

does toyota/bmw come out with a cheaper price point with less power and disappoint those that wanted a car to push the performance boundaries or do they push the boundaries and end up being more expensive than the rest of the class like the mk4? not sure if there will be much middle ground for them to play with here

I can't think of any car that was a real "hit"that was a result of a conglomeration from 2 or more auto makers? (for mass production)

 

[HKz]

I can't think of any car that was a real "hit"that was a result of a conglomeration from 2 or more auto makers? (for mass production)

well there have been some indirect cases like how the charger/challenger use the old shared mercedes platform and they have had adequate success..the 86 twins, which in recent memory is the closest type of relationship to the toyota/bmw, are a big time success in my book so that gives me some hope even though this current relationship is quite different...the miata/fiata is a success just for the miata as supposedly getting the cash from fiat was going to be the only way the ND miata would be born...plus im not sure who the fiata appeals to aside from people who don't want a miata but would somehow be ok with driving one with the old gearbox under a different badge.

what I find also little disheartening is the approach of using a convertible platform/chassis and developing a coupe from it. from my knowledge this is something that has never been done before..not because it would be innately difficult but i would assume convertibles are engineered quite differently to coupes..all great convertibles/roadsters are engineered as convertibles from the start, they aren't like mustang/camaro/s13/etc convertible variants where the driving dynamics suffer big time.

 

[Sun Devil]

Lambo - Audi. Gallardo/R8. Funny how the Italians love to bash the "Audi" parts. Guess it will be the same with the bmw people bashing the Toyota parts. It's all relative.

 

[HKz]

Lambo - Audi. Gallardo/R8. Funny how the Italians love to bash the "Audi" parts. Guess it will be the same with the bmw people bashing the Toyota parts. It's all relative.

well to be fair the relationships are quite different...lambo is owned entirely by audi so i don't think there are conflict of interests or that they even care about any self-canibalization whereas bmw has almost entirely nothing to do with toyota's supply chain aside from giving them a few diesel engines to use in europe lol and not to mention they compete with lexus..

 

[Craigy]

it is conflicting because economy minded toyota is working with a luxury company to bring this out...bmw's interests will be a limiting factor here. still not sure if bmw will be cool with releasing a car better than their own performance models (or undercutting them)

does toyota/bmw come out with a cheaper price point with less power and disappoint those that wanted a car to push the performance boundaries or do they push the boundaries and end up being more expensive than the rest of the class like the mk4? not sure if there will be much middle ground for them to play with here

If it is just a Z5 vs Supra it's really two different cars for two different markets. People cross shop everything but those appeal to seemingly completely different buyers, so one shouldn't hold the other back. Also, they will always be able to charge more for the BMW product even if it's substantially similar, because one will be gussied up and not be sold at a Toyota dealer.

As far as being more expensive than t he rest of the class, it depends on which class we're talking about. If it's slightly more money than a GT350 or ZL1 then sure that's expensive but still within reach of a typical Corvette guy. But the boundaries are already set high by just the domestics so it would be difficult to wow unless you're comparing against upmarket like the 911.

 

[gymratter]

To them what matters most is looks, price, and performance.

As for us lesser purists .... if the car looks semi-exotic (FT-1), has sufficient HP, performs .... then I'll be interested. If not .... plenty of other cars out there.

to me that would be more important; personally i dont really care who does what. TBH i kinda dont mind if BMW is taking the lead. i dont think Toyota gets it. for example take a look at the GSF, its such a great performer and seller

getting off topic now, but did Toyota really think people were going to buy a GS-F ($84k) over a M5 ($94k)? hell even the old 550i xdrive ($68k) is faster and cheaper.

 

[HKz]

If it is just a Z5 vs Supra it's really two different cars for two different markets. People cross shop everything but those appeal to seemingly completely different buyers, so one shouldn't hold the other back. Also, they will always be able to charge more for the BMW product even if it's substantially similar, because one will be gussied up and not be sold at a Toyota dealer.

As far as being more expensive than t he rest of the class, it depends on which class we're talking about. If it's slightly more money than a GT350 or ZL1 then sure that's expensive but still within reach of a typical Corvette guy. But the boundaries are already set high by just the domestics so it would be difficult to wow unless you're comparing against upmarket like the 911.

well the conflict between the MK5 Supra and Z5 is one aspect, though it isn't the bigger issue, I see the M2/M4 as the possible hurdles..bimmer fans are quite knowledgeable about their performance stats so it is tough for me to see the Supra being faster than either of them without charging with $$...I would think M2/M4 owners, or even potential owners would throw a bit of a fit that bmw is holding back on their own models then...if the top of the line engine turns out to be a toyota sourced one then that would end this issue for the most part but from everything we've seen so far it seems like a stretch..

to me that would be more important; personally i dont really care who does what. TBH i kinda dont mind if BMW is taking the lead. i dont think Toyota gets it. for example take a look at the GSF, its such a great performer and seller

getting off topic now, but did Toyota really think people were going to buy a GS-F ($84k) over a M5 ($94k)? hell even the old 550i xdrive ($68k) is faster and cheaper.

how are you measuring success? only if they sell the most in the class? from everything I've seen and read the GS F has been well received, even more so than the RC F..4.5 sec 0-60 for an all motor lux sedan is quite adequate especially for the crowd that would even be interested in picking up a Lexus.. lol funny how you use "cheaper" as a reason to not get a GS F while you list the $10 K premium before accessories & taxes between it and the m5..performance and msrp wise the GS F fits well between the M3 and M5. no need to diss toyota's performance cred, they have sold arguably the widest selection and range of performance cars especially compared to all the other economy brands..

good review here..

 

[Sun Devil]

Brand affinity is very strong with certain car buyers. Especially the cars at the expensive end. For example: look at a Ferrari. Terrible paint. Terrible dealership practices. Terrible reliability. Etc. Etc. and yet ...... people with $$$$ line up to buy these cars. Same for Range Rovers. Same for expensive German sedans. No doubt that Toyota makes a better, more reliable product than these other marques. But ..... at the end of the day ...certain people who value passion, uniqueness, niche type cars, enthusiasts, track ready, sportscar, horsepower when you need it, etc. etc. are buying on EMOTION. Lets be honest. Toyota has rarely been about emotion. Therefore.... I agree that unless you are a lifelong TOYOTA fanboy .... who is going to buy a GS-F over the other brands?

Back to the Supra. Pricing is going to be as important as chassis/ engine sharing, etc. It's all about pricing and which category of cars it competes with. Like I said earlier ..... it needs to be in the 50-60K arena.

Sponsored