Interview Questions for Detroit from the Fans

[Guff]

Toyota loves their Torsens, as do I, but BMW does not share that love unfortunately. Will be interesting to see what they end up with!

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[A70TTR]

yeah, I sort of stumbled into talking about the diff and was lucky enough to guess my way into them confirming the testing of the TVD. I really doubt I'll get any more information on it for some time. I feel the other option may be an existing BMW part (something I'm not knowledgeable on).

I want to know so badly what the manual trans is, but I also think that's going to be hard to come by especially when they wont tell me more about the mods to the head. Understandable though as were now getting to the point of asking details that more or less have to be kept 100% under wraps.

 

[Guff]

yeah, I sort of stumbled into talking about the diff and was lucky enough to guess my way into them confirming the testing of the TVD. I really doubt I'll get any more information on it for some time. I feel the other option may be an existing BMW part (something I'm not knowledgeable on).

I want to know so badly what the manual trans is, but I also think that's going to be hard to come by especially when they wont tell me more about the mods to the head. Understandable though as were now getting to the point of asking details that more or less have to be kept 100% under wraps.

Well, I think it's pretty likely D4S is the headlining (lol) addition for head revision. Toyota wants it in everything and I'm sure BMW would love the tech. Good news for us because it means port injectors will be swappable if we want more fuel.

As far as trans goes, I doubt it's an Aisin because none of the recent Aisin options are really built for this much torque and repurposing a truck trans for a sports car requires essentially a ground up redesign. I'd guess it's whatever recycled BMW trans (Getrag/ZF?) they have in the M2/M4. That being said the AZ6 was almost entirely re-engineered for the 86, so it's certainly a possibility we'll see an Aisin. I hope so because Aisins have miles better feel than any BMW's awful rubbery transmissions.

 

[A70TTR]

is D4S a combo of direct and port injection? I know the newer Lexus' have the direct+port injection to prevent the sludge issues pure DI causes. I would assume it would be a combo if not already.


EDIT: looks like it is a combo, although they only started advertising the self-cleaning bit on the new Tacoma, so that's weird.

 

[Guff]

is D4S a combo of direct and port injection? I know the newer Lexus' have the direct+port injection to prevent the sludge issues pure DI causes. I would assume it would be a combo if not already.


EDIT: looks like it is a combo, although they only started advertising the self-cleaning bit on the new Tacoma, so that's weird.

Yeah, exactly right. Toyota implemented it nearly a decade ago in their UR motors and it's now in almost all of their engines. It's fantastic tech, I'm a big fan of it. And Toyota knows everyone wants it so they use it as a bargaining chip in projects like these. Ford recently implemented their own version of the system, but other than that, I don't believe anyone else uses it.

It's really a best of both worlds for tuning, as you get great atomization and can run high static CR, while also solving any cold start issues and allowing for expandability should one need more fuel.

 

[A70TTR]

yeah, that's pretty awesome. I actually wasnt aware of the other benefits you mentioned, so I watched a short video Scion created on the topic for the FRS and it was neat to see its more than just a cleaning and cold start solution.

 

[Craigy]

As far as trans goes, I doubt it's an Aisin because none of the recent Aisin options are really built for this much torque and repurposing a truck trans for a sports car requires essentially a ground up redesign. I'd guess it's whatever recycled BMW trans (Getrag/ZF?) they have in the M2/M4. That being said the AZ6 was almost entirely re-engineered for the 86, so it's certainly a possibility we'll see an Aisin. I hope so because Aisins have miles better feel than any BMW's awful rubbery transmissions.

To hell with the manual, I just want some confirmation that we're getting a real-deal dual clutch. The Getrag DCT in the M3 is super crisp, super reliable, fantastic. From what I understand, the M4/M2 unit is essentially the same unit but beefed up for the M5 & M6. Getting that off the shelf would be incredible, head and shoulders above any of the slush autoboxes that Lexus puts in their sporty cars.

 

[tfoxyr]

I had read on bimmer forum some time ago that the next gen 86 will be developed with bmw but with z3 as its twin . My question is this : if the 86 gets some power boost where that will leave the 4 cylinder supra/spx?.

 

[Guff]

To hell with the manual, I just want some confirmation that we're getting a real-deal dual clutch. The Getrag DCT in the M3 is super crisp, super reliable, fantastic. From what I understand, the M4/M2 unit is essentially the same unit but beefed up for the M5 & M6. Getting that off the shelf would be incredible, head and shoulders above any of the slush autoboxes that Lexus puts in their sporty cars.

I hate to say it, but don't count on it. I'm about 80% sure that it'll be a ZF8HP TC Auto, in both the Z4 and Supra. There's a chance for the DCT, but I don't think BMW really wants to put it in a non-M car.

Personally, I like the ZF box better than almost all DCTs, but most people won't agree with me on that. Most DCTs (including BMW's) are absolutely mindless in low load situations and, on top of that, are expensive to maintain. I'll take the ZF box every day of the week, they're just so damn good. The 8HP in my brother's Guilia QV is a joy. Smooth when you are cruising, and as fast as makes no difference when you're in race mode. I have not driven any of the newer Lexus trans' but I have heard mixed things, so hopefully they stick with ZF.

 

[Guff]

I had read on bimmer forum some time ago that the next gen 86 will be developed with bmw but with z3 as its twin . My question is this : if the 86 gets some power boost where that will leave the 4 cylinder supra/spx?.

Whatever you read was wrong. And the Z3 is just the predecessor to the Z4. 86 is a Toyota/Subaru long into the foreseeable future.

 

[A70TTR]

I had read on bimmer forum some time ago that the next gen 86 will be developed with bmw but with z3 as its twin . My question is this : if the 86 gets some power boost where that will leave the 4 cylinder supra/spx?.

thats an easy one, no boost

for exactly the reasons you mentioned, it would not make sense. otherwise, it would likely cut into sales and they would end up discontinuing the 4cyl Supra which may happen anyways.

 

[A70TTR]

I hate to say it, but don't count on it. I'm about 80% sure that it'll be a ZF8HP TC Auto, in both the Z4 and Supra. There's a chance for the DCT, but I don't think BMW really wants to put it in a non-M car.

Personally, I like the ZF box better than almost all DCTs, but most people won't agree with me on that. Most DCTs (including BMW's) are absolutely mindless in low load situations and, on top of that, are expensive to maintain. I'll take the ZF box every day of the week, they're just so damn good. The 8HP in my brother's Guilia QV is a joy. Smooth when you are cruising, and as fast as makes no difference when you're in race mode. I have not driven any of the newer Lexus trans' but I have heard mixed things, so hopefully they stick with ZF.

One of the junior engineers originally told me they were testing the DCT if folks recall, but it ended up getting cut. I'd like a DCT, but were lucky enough to be getting the 6spd and not just the ZF8.

 

[Guff]

One of the junior engineers originally told me they were testing the DCT if folks recall, but it ended up getting cut. I'd like a DCT, but were lucky enough to be getting the 6spd and not just the ZF8.

Agreed. Let's hope the manual doesn't get cut either for whatever reason haha!

 

[HKz]

if it is between a ZF or AISIN torque converter, would rather have the latter as they shift well enough and we get the peace of mind considering it comes directly from a huge toyota supplier. never had a complaint with any of the 8 speeds in the lexus f sports or the 6 speed when i had an automatic 86. any laziness folks have experienced with the lexus trans is probably more to do with tuning..

 

[Craigy]

I hate to say it, but don't count on it. I'm about 80% sure that it'll be a ZF8HP TC Auto, in both the Z4 and Supra. There's a chance for the DCT, but I don't think BMW really wants to put it in a non-M car.

Personally, I like the ZF box better than almost all DCTs, but most people won't agree with me on that. Most DCTs (including BMW's) are absolutely mindless in low load situations and, on top of that, are expensive to maintain. I'll take the ZF box every day of the week, they're just so damn good. The 8HP in my brother's Guilia QV is a joy. Smooth when you are cruising, and as fast as makes no difference when you're in race mode. I have not driven any of the newer Lexus trans' but I have heard mixed things, so hopefully they stick with ZF.

The Getrag DCT in the M3 is virtually bulletproof, "lifetime" transmission fluid, etc. Zero maintenance. I think if you search hard enough there are one or two guys out there in the universe who have had a defective transmission replaced under warranty. Probably the only truly reliable item on the whole car.

I don't know about BMW's other offerings though, or every other manufacturer. Maybe there's some big maintenance with certain makes/models. But from everything I know, a dual clutch is going to be pretty much hassle free.

Would be a real disappointment to see another Toyota/Lexus sports offering with an automatic transmission. I could do the 6spd, but I really love a dual clutch. By the time this comes out, I should probably step up to something like Porsche PDK, etc.

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