2020 Supra Transmission Chat - Manual, Dual Clutch, or Auto?

[A-I]

Very strange for a new car to be launched on the premise that it is made for the traditional customer of the MkIV when the ultimate desirable MkIV was a twin-turbo 6-speed MANUAL - and then not provide a 'flagship' manual option.

There is backlash currently building in the performance car market regarding the constant drone of only having two pedals. Over the past number of years the focus has been on 0-60 times and emissions. Whereby auto boxes aid in that goal - the beneficiary of this is mainly the manufacturer, not the driver. But the people buying such performance cars over the past number of years are not typically driver enthusiasts. They are 'flippers', looking for a quick profit as they ride the bandwagon of rising 2nd hand market - fueled by others like them.

Porsche is one manufacturer listening to their core customer who has traditionally been a driving enthusiast and as such they are bringing back manuals in to their 911 range. BMW is conveniently another who saw that dropping manuals would be a big mistake.

Its not too late for Toyota to realise what people are after and get to work on producing the drive-train and driver involvement that we really want.
Especially for what is probably Toyota's most iconic model name !

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[upnsmoke]

If there's no manual in the shelf ready to go...then don't expect it until facelift if not next replacement maybe in 2023...

But going by rumors Toyota should have 2 other manual coupes that are more affordable before then...Toyota developed internally and or colab with another Japanese OEM most likely for the 86/FRS replacement in 2021....

I'm hanging for an MR2.... With an a modern 3SGTE!

 

[GT-Four]

Or a Corolla GT-Four. I personally don't think the market is big enough for an MR2 and an 86 to exist. I would have thought they would kill the 86 and have the 4cyl Supra take its place, then have an MR2 and a celica GT4 replacement which ideally would be the new corolla/auris. Also the next yaris for the lower end. That would pretty much cover a full range of sporty cars to suit various customer needs and tastes ie fwd hot hatch, awd hatch, mid engine small sports car and lastly 2 rwd cars

 

[A70TTR]

Even if development started a little while ago, the manual would be nowhere near ready for deployment on the 2019 release date. That said, hopefully there is some credence in what the article says and that they are developing it vs just keeping under consideration.

 

[zigzagz94]

The p

Or a Corolla GT-Four. I personally don't think the market is big enough for an MR2 and an 86 to exist. I would have thought they would kill the 86 and have the 4cyl Supra take its place, then have an MR2 and a celica GT4 replacement which ideally would be the new corolla/auris. Also the next yaris for the lower end. That would pretty much cover a full range of sporty cars to suit various customer needs and tastes ie fwd hot hatch, awd hatch, mid engine small sports car and lastly 2 rwd cars

The problem with having the auto only 4cyl supra replace the 86 is the manual take rate for the twins is VERY high. They would alienate all of those current owners, myself included, and leave them with no path to upgrade to.

 

[The Comedian]

If the Supra doesn't come in manual I won't buy the car. It's that simple.

Keep the BRZ and turbo it. Light, fast with turbo and manual.

However, people will still buy this car because it's a "Supra" just like how people buy the GTR without manual.

I've already made it clear to myself I won't buy the car if auto only. I don't care for flappy paddles

 

[Jdmuscle]

Meh.. if it’s a super car killer then I’d understand an auto only like the GTR. This Supra is being termed as a driver car.. how on earth is an automatic only equipped car termed as a driver car? Just doesn’t make sense.

 

[A-I]

Exactly Jdmuscle.

Autos and "driver's car" are incompatible in my opinion. You only have to watch the endless youtube vids of people doing launches and street 'racing' where all they are doing is holding the steering wheel straight and pressing a pedal. Which anyone with long enough arms and legs can do.
Practically no driver involvement at all.

I've even tried hard 1st hand to see what the enjoyment is with auto boxes having test driven a few BMW M4s/M5s, GTRs and 911s with the PDK box. No matter how hard the acceleration is, the root issue is that the driver is doing very little and is just a 'passenger' most of the time. Very boring.

The MkV can not be advertised as a "driver's car" if it is not a manual gear box. I don't think anybody could convince me otherwise.

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

Sounds like they are looking to add an MT option to the drivetrain, because of strong demand.

Really? Seriously? MT option on the 3.0-litre or 2.0-litre or both? Sounds interesting! Will it be available at launch? So far Tada has just confirmed about the AT.

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

I would translate the last two paragraphs of the blue section of that article as follows:

"Besides the suspension modifications, a 3 pedal MT is being prepared. Although Tada hinted that there would only be AT, because of strong market demand for an MT, the consideration/preparation for it has already started. BMW already offers an inline 6 turbo with an MT in other models, so it is not technically unfeasible."

I don't know what magazine this is nor do they quote any source, but I remember Tada-san saying in that one on one interview a while back, that he never said that there wouldn't be an MT, and that if there is strong enough demand for it, they will offer it.

So if it will really be offered with a MT, would all enthusiasts choose this over the AT?

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

Exactly Jdmuscle.

Autos and "driver's car" are incompatible in my opinion. You only have to watch the endless youtube vids of people doing launches and street 'racing' where all they are doing is holding the steering wheel straight and pressing a pedal. Which anyone with long enough arms and legs can do.
Practically no driver involvement at all.

I've even tried hard 1st hand to see what the enjoyment is with auto boxes having test driven a few BMW M4s/M5s, GTRs and 911s with the PDK box. No matter how hard the acceleration is, the root issue is that the driver is doing very little and is just a 'passenger' most of the time. Very boring.

The MkV can not be advertised as a "driver's car" if it is not a manual gear box. I don't think anybody could convince me otherwise.

Even though AT offers tiptronic/paddle shifters for drivers to control the car, these are artificial movements and they are heavily based on the computers. Unlike MT, which is a true driver’s car, the driver actually controls it, and has the total freedom to do whatever he wants with the car.

I remember Tada mentioned why they’re offering AT only at launch is because the shifting with an AT is faster than with MT. So I believe an A90 Supra with MT would be slower than AT. Computers may shift for the driver; but the fun is simply better with MT in my opinion. I feel relaxed when driving an AT, and feel challenged and excited when driving a MT because there’s driver involvement. What I don’t like with MT is I can hardly eat & drink while driving.

 

[Chikane]

Hmmm I think that's alittle unfair though because of how one defines "Driver's Car" your definition of it could differ from someone else. It's like defining sports cars. One person's version of a Driver's car could be a Miata where it's a low HP car that's light weight with open top and a manual FR setup. Meanwhile another person could see differently and say a driver's car is a 911 Turbo with PDK where it's all about speed and the fastest lap time. I don't think neither person are wrong, but here in this scenerio, Toyota isn't wrong either by not providing a manual at launch. It's not like Toyota didn't do research, or did they "Make this car to appease the MKIV owners" they had a vision for the car and this was it. And if they did do the research and Manual isn't the top priority but the I6 engine was, we got the i6 engine. If the I6 wasn't top It could be anything it could be Manual is on top and we get a v6 engine and people will still complain.

I can see a Supra version similar to a 911R being offered in limited quantities or even Manual offered later on, like many Manual wasn't a priority for me. I even like to make the argument that the driver's car that people keep asking for with a good manual already exist. It's the 86, and you can put more power into it your self, and it will probably cost less than a MKV

 

[aeronSUPRAco]

Hmmm I think that's alittle unfair though because of how one defines "Driver's Car" your definition of it could differ from someone else. It's like defining sports cars. One person's version of a Driver's car could be a Miata where it's a low HP car that's light weight with open top and a manual FR setup. Meanwhile another person could see differently and say a driver's car is a 911 Turbo with PDK where it's all about speed and the fastest lap time. I don't think neither person are wrong, but here in this scenerio, Toyota isn't wrong either by not providing a manual at launch. It's not like Toyota didn't do research, or did they "Make this car to appease the MKIV owners" they had a vision for the car and this was it. And if they did do the research and Manual isn't the top priority but the I6 engine was, we got the i6 engine. If the I6 wasn't top It could be anything it could be Manual is on top and we get a v6 engine and people will still complain.

I can see a Supra version similar to a 911R being offered in limited quantities or even Manual offered later on, like many Manual wasn't a priority for me. I even like to make the argument that the driver's car that people keep asking for with a good manual already exist. It's the 86, and you can put more power into it your self, and it will probably cost less than a MKV

I agree. The new generation people, many of them did not have the chance to drive a manual. AT is primarily the more practical choice for most drivers. Only a few would attempt to drive a manual, particularly those interested in cars and motoring. If you want to drive a manual, yeah, I believe it’s better to drive a Miata or 86 as what’s important is the feel. You work your way out in such cars. You rev it up, feel the throttle. You have full control. The 86 doesn’t feel slow after all. With the Supra, power comes in an instant. Nothing much work to be done. The 86 and Supra serve different purposes.

Toyota has studied the history of the Supra very well before they planned to build the MkV. They talked to Supra owners and asked what they want to see and have with this new version. Most importantly, there should be a business case before Toyota would decide to bring back the Supra. The market of manual is shrinking, so I believe Toyota just decided to stick to automatic. A lot of design cues, and equipments are based heavily on the MkIV, especially the 3.0-litre I6 turbocharged engine. The MkV is a modernized Supra with lots of technology. AT is ok for me. I’m also considering being practical without sacrificing sportiness.

I have faith and trust in Toyota that’s why I’m much more excited with the Supra; not much with the BMW Z4. When Toyota first launched the Prius, you can see that they go full throttle into developing fuel efficient cars. That’s why they were so boring during those times. Yes, they were selling many cars; but their cars lack emotion. Now, their direction has shifted to bringing back sportiness, with the help of technology, without sacrificing fuel efficiency. This is what we’ve been wanting for a while now.

I believe Toyota will launch manual Supra in limited quantities, particularly for track use. There’s still a fan base for it; but smaller. We just have to wait and see... Toyota is already an expert in the automotive industry. They already know what enthusiasts want, what will sell. Toyota is also known to keeping a lot of secrets. Secrets that will surprise people like.....WoW!

After all, we have to be thankful that Toyota is once again bringing back the Supra. I’m 99% sure that, if Toyota does plan to bring out a MkVI Supra, it will already be a hybrid/electric Supra. So we just have to enjoy this last present to us. There would be no replacement for gas powered cars. Electrified Supra may be fast but the overall feel will be different. Long live the Supra!

 

[Spilner]

i heard a ZF in action today and that is one speedy shifter

 

[A70TTR]

I've been able to get up and close and personal with a few other cars (not Supra) running prototype ZF units, and I'm continually impressed with how fast they shift.

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