3rd gen G29 BMW Z4 (2019-202X)

[A70TTR]

some new information close to the source:

1) the car will be available with a single 8 speed automatic transmission sourced from BMW (in all likelihood the ZF8)

2) it is being referred to as 'SPX' in both official documents and conversations now

@A70TTR guessed in the 380hp range.

folks generally only hear what they want to hear.

most of the comments I make are just parroting what the chief engineer and his assistant were telling me lol. oh well...

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[vb22]

some new information close to the source:

1) the car will be available with a single 8 speed automatic transmission sourced from BMW (in all likelihood the ZF8)

2) it is being referred to as 'SPX' in both official documents and conversations now

What happened to the DCT? Is that now off the table?

 

[A70TTR]

looks like it was just for testing purposes and didn't provide enough of an advantage over the ZF8... that's all I have unfortunately.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

So I guess the leaked BMW codes were true. Lame... Oh well, not all hope is lost. I'm still excited to see if Mazda unveils a new RX at Tokyo.

 

[soundman414]

Based on this, if Toyota and BMW share a codeveloped engine, it's so hard to tell what Toyota is going to do with the car. I can't imagine the rumored $50k-$65k price tag on Supra is true anymore.

For one, if they are going to price it like that and make it a direct competitor to something like the Cayman S, then it should be a lexus and they can tout 30 more HP than the 718 S — but we know it's going to be a Toyota. If this is to compete for the hearts and minds of younger drivers — the kind that buy BRZ, 370Z, Mustang, Camaro, Miata, etc — then this is going to be wildly overpriced for the main talking point among these car buyers; handling OR horsepower. While cars like the BRZ and Miata are no powerhouses, they are relatively cheap, driver oriented cars, and that's the corner of the market they carve out. The same can be said for the guys that want a 1/4 mile machine — they aren't the best drivers cars, but you can throw a few thousand at it and you are starting to spank other cars that cost 10s of thousands of dollars more.

So where does the venerable Supra fit into these market segments? Is there really a significant enough market to sell a non-luxury sports car, at luxury car prices, with handling and weight as the main selling points? Porsche is the only company I know of that is even close to that equation. But for the last 15 years, Porsche has cemented itself in the luxury market with their quality and engineering reputation, allowing them to charge a premium. I can't believe Toyota would dilute their Lexus brand image by releasing such a costly product that blurs the lines of what is luxury and what isn't.

So maybe the predictions for price were when Toyota was looking at a 450+ HP car and when the marketing and business development folks chatted with them, they felt a sub-400 HP car with a more modest price would be the better option for sales success. $65k today means good handling, relatively modest weight, and heaps of power — like 400-600hp. If they can't manage that, I feel there just aren't enough buyers out there with that kind of money, that would go for a car like this over a Cayman, Lotus, M4, RS5, Corvette, TT-RS, F-Type.

 

[A70TTR]

the target price of the car was $50-60k when it was testing at 330hp a few months ago.

It likely has 385hp now because that was deemed what was needed to be competitive on paper (this car is light when compared to many others).


that said, who wouldn't want this thing to be less money (I'm not independently wealthy personally).

 

[Timmo598]

Haha, thats quite the sneaky little bat cave exit they have themselves there

 

[madfast]

some new information close to the source:

1) the car will be available with a single 8 speed automatic transmission sourced from BMW (in all likelihood the ZF8)

2) it is being referred to as 'SPX' in both official documents and conversations now

thanks for the new tidbit of info. this car was 1000% going to be AT only. people who thought MT and DCT were just grasping at straws. look at the new M5, it uses the ZF 8HP. even bmw has said DCT's will soon be replaced by modern AT's. i know this info is a deal breaker to many but such is the state of things.

SPX... interesting. i guess the leaked BMW documents were accurate after all... i've been doing trademark searches and SPX doesnt seem to be trademarked by toyota yet. perhaps it's just not published yet. either way, not naming the car "supra" is a smart move. it's an homage not a direct successor...

Based on this, if Toyota and BMW share a codeveloped engine, it's so hard to tell what Toyota is going to do with the car. I can't imagine the rumored $50k-$65k price tag on Supra is true anymore.

For one, if they are going to price it like that and make it a direct competitor to something like the Cayman S, then it should be a lexus and they can tout 30 more HP than the 718 S — but we know it's going to be a Toyota. If this is to compete for the hearts and minds of younger drivers — the kind that buy BRZ, 370Z, Mustang, Camaro, Miata, etc — then this is going to be wildly overpriced for the main talking point among these car buyers; handling OR horsepower. While cars like the BRZ and Miata are no powerhouses, they are relatively cheap, driver oriented cars, and that's the corner of the market they carve out. The same can be said for the guys that want a 1/4 mile machine — they aren't the best drivers cars, but you can throw a few thousand at it and you are starting to spank other cars that cost 10s of thousands of dollars more.

So where does the venerable Supra fit into these market segments? Is there really a significant enough market to sell a non-luxury sports car, at luxury car prices, with handling and weight as the main selling points? Porsche is the only company I know of that is even close to that equation. But for the last 15 years, Porsche has cemented itself in the luxury market with their quality and engineering reputation, allowing them to charge a premium. I can't believe Toyota would dilute their Lexus brand image by releasing such a costly product that blurs the lines of what is luxury and what isn't.

So maybe the predictions for price were when Toyota was looking at a 450+ HP car and when the marketing and business development folks chatted with them, they felt a sub-400 HP car with a more modest price would be the better option for sales success. $65k today means good handling, relatively modest weight, and heaps of power — like 400-600hp. If they can't manage that, I feel there just aren't enough buyers out there with that kind of money, that would go for a car like this over a Cayman, Lotus, M4, RS5, Corvette, TT-RS, F-Type.

the way i see it, this is a toyota version of the M2 with less weight and more power. what's not to like about that?

the target price of the car was $50-60k when it was testing at 330hp a few months ago.

It likely has 385hp now because that was deemed what was needed to be competitive on paper (this car is light when compared to many others).


that said, who wouldn't want this thing to be less money (I'm not independently wealthy personally).

385 hp is needed in america where cheap speed is aplenty. i was expecting 375ish so anything over that is fine by me. i just hope the US version will still be light.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

thanks for the new tidbit of info. this car was 1000% going to be AT only. people who thought MT and DCT were just grasping at straws. look at the new M5, it uses the ZF 8HP. even bmw has said DCT's will soon be replaced by modern AT's. i know this info is a deal breaker to many but such is the state of things.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/frankfurt-auto-show/a12241219/bmw-m-manuals-rear-wheel-drive/

 

[madfast]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/frankfurt-auto-show/a12241219/bmw-m-manuals-rear-wheel-drive/

i've read that article. like porsche, they will try to keep the MT around but its demise is inevitable. the F90 M5 was the first domino to fall for bmw....

 

[MA617M]

I am hoping that while the engine may be in the 300 hp range, what's not disclosed is the electric motors on the rear wheels adding to the total

 

[Haros]

i've read that article. like porsche, they will try to keep the MT around but its demise is inevitable. the F90 M5 was the first domino to fall for bmw....

Porsches MT adoption rate is actually quite low, Jalopnik or some other forum quoted it as mid teens, even if there is a large vocal minority that wants MT everything.
Porsche has the best DCT in the industry, so it's no wonder.

The internet would like everyone to believe MT is the best thing ever - but I'd like know what mytical world they live in where every road is open and every gear is rowed from 1st to 6th. Reality hits hard when you're in stop and go traffic and the only thing you're doing is burning clutch.
DCT fits perfect for this. Leave it auto for commutes, and manual for when you actually have a day off, outside of traffic.

 

[Guff]

Rest assured that the US will get whatever the highest output version is, this I know for sure. And if I were to guess, I'd say we only get one engine, for the Toyota at least. No idea what BMW is gonna have. But more than likely, if you're getting the Toyota, is gonna be the whole hog or nothing at all. Good for us! Sorry for everyone else.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

i've read that article. like porsche, they will try to keep the MT around but its demise is inevitable. the F90 M5 was the first domino to fall for bmw....

Different segment, the Z4 has already been spied with a manual. Also half of M2s that are sold are manuals.

Rest assured that the US will get whatever the highest output version is, this I know for sure. And if I were to guess, I'd say we only get one engine, for the Toyota at least. No idea what BMW is gonna have. But more than likely, if you're getting the Toyota, is gonna be the whole hog or nothing at all. Good for us! Sorry for everyone else.

I also hope we don't get the 4 banger version.

 

[johnny_10196]

So I guess the leaked BMW codes were true. Lame... Oh well, not all hope is lost. I'm still excited to see if Mazda unveils a new RX at Tokyo.

Sorry to disappoint, but it looks like Mazda is just bringing a Mazda3 concept and a new sedan concept to Tokyo.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/10/mazdas-bringing-two-new-concepts-to.html

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