Performance traction control *New product*

[suicidaleggroll]

Currently we have no plans on supporting this as its not compatible with my 5-CANBUS channel reflex boxes.

John

Sad day

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you’ll be able to support something similar to this in the future, it looks like it has a lot of promise.

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[visconti]

Sad day

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you’ll be able to support something similar to this in the future, it looks like it has a lot of promise.

Once EcuTek adds wheel speed sensors to RaceROM the same thing can be achieved without extra hardware / harnesses.

Right now the ability to import more sensors and control more items over CANBUS are the biggest priority for my big power customers.

Ultimately the best tracton control is not over powering the tire to begin with, so having this NOW would be cool, but not a deal breaker with a little dialing-in of the tuning.

 

[Zupraman]

The best use of traction control like this for big power cars is in parallel with boost by gear or boost by speed (proactive) with some idea of where the break mark is, unfortunately wheel slip feedback is a reactive and thus will always react to some overpowering of the wheels. The idea is to limit how far it overshoots and maintain a targeted slip.

Unfortunately I’ve been told over and again from ecutek that there are no plans to add access wheel speed data. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered

 

[visconti]

The best use of traction control like this for big power cars is in parallel with boost by gear or boost by speed (proactive) with some idea of where the break mark is, unfortunately wheel slip feedback is a reactive and thus will always react to some overpowering of the wheels. The idea is to limit how far it overshoots and maintain a targeted slip.

This type of traction control is best done by the factory ecu, where there won't be so much latency.

Wheel Speed -> Traction Box -> Reflex -> Factory ECU

This is a cool project, but if the tuner doesn't go crazy with the commanded trq, traction won't be such a issue.

As a tuner I can tell you it's best to not overpower the tire.
Reducing power via traction control just slows the car down. BOOOO
It's best to dial the car in and add traction control after the fact..

On a car that's dialed in, not having traction control isn't the end of the world.

I'll take coolant pressure or crank case pressure sensors over laggy traction control.

Again, cool stuff

 

[Zupraman]

I appreciate the input here, as it's always welcome. However I'm a big proponent of results and data. What I have that's tangible is a system that can be observed and tested to work, I've been testing with it since early 2022.

As a tuner I can tell you it's best to not overpower the tire.
Reducing power via traction control just slows the car down. BOOOO
It's best to dial the car in and add traction control after the fact..

Reducing power via traction control to keep a certain slip target keeps a car controllable and at its maximum accelleration for the given tire and road conditions.

On a car that's dialed in, not having traction control isn't the end of the world.

On a car that is dialed in you're assuming the environment will always be within a narrow set of environmental parameters that allows for the same traction levels every time, and you're not targeting a slip for maxium forward accelleration. The track is easy to predict because the environment is well controlled, the streets are a different story. It's not the end of the world, but who likes standing still when progressing forward (no pun intended) is so much better.

I'll take coolant pressure or crank case pressure sensors over laggy traction control.

Coolant pressure, useful to tell if you're lifting your head, however if you build the engine properly you won't have a need for it. Traction control, useful for faster accelleration and mortal safety. I will respectfully disagree with your choice on this one.

 

[Zupraman]

This brings me to my next point. I would like to show a few examples of why I decided to work on this issue of traction control. Here are some real life examples that are documented (there are many that are undocumented). There are many uses for this system depending on how the tuner chooses to used it, performance, and saftey.

I believe this is one of Visconti's customers. While I'm positive this car is dialed in (as vis stated), unfortunately this is one of those cases i'm speaking of where the environment changes and a TCS system could've saved the drama (potentially enough to stay in the throttle and backhalf the competition).

 

[razorlab]

Lol discounti in opposition to all Motorsports traction strategies in pro level racing. Def not a surprise.

He opposes what he can’t sell. Like being banned from a certain tuning platform.

 

[Richard Heubach]

I have a prototype version of this advanced TC on my car. I’m not big power (roughly 600+) right now, but I made the mistake of getting the shitty Nitto G2s. Prior to the TC system, my car would be all over the damn place even at 60mph hits. With the TC, I can stay in it from a dig or 40-60 roll. I even dropped my 60-130 times since using it. For me, it’s helped with control confidence in every road surface to include wet. The car seemly stays planted and in traction without needing to pedal which yea, on the G2s, it was drift city regardless of the speed. Unfortunately I don’t know all the ins and outs of how this system works, but what I do know, is it works and I can’t wait to see how it does once I go too mount and have more power. Thanks Curtis for the work you’ve put into this.

 

[jRuN]

Adding driver safety to big power cars and quicker times .. seems like a win win.

Question - Does the thing you're working on with BM3 have anything to do with them working on their own port injection solution? I would love to have BM3 control the tune and port all in one.. and if you could integrate with that so our BM3 tuners can control tune, port and atc .. 🤌

 

[decodeddiesel]

Lol discounti in opposition to all Motorsports traction strategies in pro level racing. Def not a surprise.

He opposes what he can’t sell. Like being banned from a certain tuning platform.

I see you're not a fan either.

Great seeing you at LRP today by the way. Hood vent looks too dope IRL.

 

[visconti]

I appreciate the input here, as it's always welcome. However I'm a big proponent of results and data. What I have that's tangible is a system that can be observed and tested to work, I've been testing with it since early 2022.



Reducing power via traction control to keep a certain slip target keeps a car controllable and at its maximum accelleration for the given tire and road conditions.



On a car that is dialed in you're assuming the environment will always be within a narrow set of environmental parameters that allows for the same traction levels every time, and you're not targeting a slip for maxium forward accelleration. The track is easy to predict because the environment is well controlled, the streets are a different story. It's not the end of the world, but who likes standing still when progressing forward (no pun intended) is so much better.



Coolant pressure, useful to tell if you're lifting your head, however if you build the engine properly you won't have a need for it. Traction control, useful for faster accelleration and mortal safety. I will respectfully disagree with your choice on this one.

Unfortunately that still doesn't address the latency of a system that doesn't have the ability to instantly communicate what's going on to the computer that needs to produce the change.

John

 

[Zupraman]

Unfortunately that still doesn't address the latency of a system that doesn't have the ability to instantly communicate what's going on to the computer that needs to produce the change.

John

John, I understand. Can you please let me know when it was that you measured the latency of my system, and what it was so we can compare notes.

 

[suicidaleggroll]

Unfortunately I’ve been told over and again from ecutek that there are no plans to add access wheel speed data. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered

@razorlab posted logs of wheel speed from the factory Supra ECU (via BM3 I presume) in this very thread. Maybe send that over to Ecutek to see what they have to say?

 

[Zupraman]

@razorlab posted logs of wheel speed from the factory Supra ECU (via BM3 I presume) in this very thread. Maybe send that over to Ecutek to see what they have to say?

unfortunately based on their response I’m not sure they can or will.

I didn’t grok that from what our dialog was beyond the post in question. So let’s ask him.

@razorlab the screenshot you posted, was that from a Supra on bm3 or a log from a different vehicle?

 

[razorlab]

@razorlab posted logs of wheel speed from the factory Supra ECU (via BM3 I presume) in this very thread. Maybe send that over to Ecutek to see what they have to say?

I have the CAN addresses, Formulas and everything…

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