Have a look at the Prototype Supra's engine

[MA617M]

As far as I was told, the new engine is based on the B58 with the necessary changes made to it. I would assume the engine shown in this prototype is the new engine.

can you elaborate (or at least hint) where you were told this? interesting

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[justbake]

Now I am even more curious on how they are achieveing 50:50 weight distribution and lower COG than the GT86 with an iron block motor. A V6 would make sense because it can be tucked back into the firewall but the V35a is aluminum. Maybe an inline 6 with an electric turbo/supercharger tucked on the backside of motor. I know mercedes has an inline 6 now with an electric supercharger so it makes sense for bmw to need toyota for hybrid tech to compete with mercedes, while toyota needs bmw for a sports car.

 

[GT-Four]

can you elaborate (or at least hint) where you were told this? interesting

I was told this by someone close to Tada San.

 

[PerformanceSound]

Remember when the previous two generations of the Tahoe - Yukon - Escalade all had the same exact fenders, quarter panels, doors, and interior components? As much as they’re the same car, it never impacted their sales figures. Even the current generation has slightly less similarities, because GM knew the American consumer isn’t going to dictate a 15% premium for the varying headlight and grille.

At the end of the day, the badge plays, and it plays rigiuorusly in the USDMarket.

Not to prolong this topic, but your example is not exactly the same...

The Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade don't cost the same or similarly between models. My point is, the Supra and Z4 will most likely be in the same price bracket, so why wouldn't I want to go with an upscale brand if they are the same car for the same price? Your example has pretty drastic variations in price between a Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade...$15k-$25k in fact. Yes, from that price point difference, I can see why the everyday shopper would think twice about paying more for the same car. However, price the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade the same, and the Chevy/GMC lots would be filled with unsold cars. Brand loyalty nowadays really only plays a factor when there is a price difference. The days of the MKIV Supra and SC300 costing the same, yet the Supra was a better performer are over because they were not the same car. What I'm saying is the Z4 and the MKV Supra will most likely be (based on what we are seeing now) the same car, priced the same, with only the aesthetics differentiating the two.

 

[Leeky]

My point is, the Supra and Z4 will most likely be in the same price bracket, so why wouldn't I want to go with an upscale brand if they are the same car for the same price?

I cant fault your logic, but like a lot of people I just hate BMW’s.

I love the Toyota brand and how they do things. Id actually honestly be willing to pay more for the same car with Toyota badges.

And besides, maybe I want a coupe and not a roadster. But there is also the imagine you want to give out.

I cant speak for the rest of the world but here in the UK when someone tells you they own a BMW you kinda instantly judge them as being a bit unoriginal and douchey.

And to be fair on the flip side when you tell people you drive a Toyota they usually assume its something crap like a Corolla or a Prius, but 9 times out of 10 when you tell them “Actually I own a Celica/MR2/Supra etc” they are like “Oh wow, I used to have one of those. It was awesome!”

About 10 years ago I bought an E46 330i to see what the fuss was about. It was without a doubt the worst car i’ve ever owned and has put me off BMW’s for life.

So I’m actually hoping the Supra doesn’t get built in Austria with BMW parts and instead gets made in Japan (or at least a Toyota Factory) using parts perhaps just designed with BMW (Not ideal, but I could live with that).

I really would love a new Supra as my next car as i’ve already had a MK2 and three MK4’s, but if the DNA is more BMW than Toyota i’ll be sticking with my 86 and buying a supercharger instead.

 

[A70TTR]

As much as I'd like to always be right, that's definitely not always the case.

In reality, that motor could be the new motor in question. In fact, after studying those pictures further, there is enough that's different component wise to make the argument that it may be a new engine, but the photos available dont show the front of the motor or under the cover (where definitive details are located).

I originally thought the iron block engine was a B58 variant/derivative but then heard some things that swayed me away from that. I'm only as good as what I'm told however, as at this point i'm not around the car.

 

[CantEven_Supra]

As much as I'd like to always be right, that's definitely not always the case.

In reality, that motor could be the new motor in question. In fact, after studying those pictures further, there is enough that's different component wise to make the argument that it's a new engine.

I originally thought the iron block engine was a B58 variant/derivative but then heard some things that swayed me away from that. I'm only as good as what I'm told however, as at this point i'm not around the car.

Here's to hoping the new iron block engine is based off the B58 and infact has tweaks made by toyota that the overall layout looks similar and the engine at goodwood was in fact the toyota engine! Would make the new engine ready for release in the spring/summer then!

I just want the Toyota engine to be ready at initial release. If the GRMN model comes later with a bigger turbo, or more boost / different tuning I'm okay with that because I will be right there with them with the aftermarket. What I won't do is get the b58 if they announce that this iron block is coming later and the GRMN model is the only trim getting that engine.

The official release can't come soon enough haha

 

[justbake]

Whats the appeal of the iron block motor if the aluminum versions have been known to hold a great deal of power? A lot guys are pushing 900+ through an open deck N54, so the closed deck B58 would be capable of even more. Obviously the sky is the limit with an iron block but that won't prevent sales unless the buyer is planning on big power from the start

 

[CantEven_Supra]

Whats the appeal of the iron block motor if the aluminum versions have been known to hold a great deal of power? A lot guys are pushing 900+ through an open deck N54, so the closed deck B58 would be capable of even more.

You make a very good point! I think for me its more the iron block engine has more Toyota development and touches to it than taking the B58 straight as is. Not saying BMW doesn't make great inline 6's but I get piece of mind with more Toyota development....I mean they are ranked 1 and 2 when it comes to reliability.

Power wise I think both engines will make plenty if not capable of way more then 99% of people will utilize.

 

[justbake]

You make a very good point! I think for me its more the iron block engine has more Toyota development and touches to it than taking the B58 straight as is. Not saying BMW doesn't make great inline 6's but I get piece of mind with more Toyota development....I mean they are ranked 1 and 2 when it comes to reliability.

Power wise I think both engines will make plenty if not capable of way more then 99% of people will utilize.

What concerns me about BMW's reliability (as a former N54 owner) is their unwillingness to use quality materials in order to cut costs. Gaskets, seals, entire cooling systems, hoses, etc. If Toyota is in charge of that, I will proudly tell everyone my Toyota has a BMW motor

 

[Modal170]

What concerns me about BMW's reliability (as a former N54 owner) is their unwillingness to use quality materials in order to cut costs. Gaskets, seals, entire cooling systems, hoses, etc. If Toyota is in charge of that, I will proudly tell everyone my Toyota has a BMW motor

They probably did their due diligence.

People are complaining about fake vents on a car. Enthusiasts are hard to please, very hard to please. People wouldn't buy the supra if it didn't have a straight 6. But then people would complain it wasn't an iron block. Then complain it's a BMW motor. Complain it's a BMW body/parts/ etc....

There's no chance to please anyone unless you just make the car for its first generation and then build on it so it gets only better and better. Then people's perception changes over time.

 

[justbake]

They probably did their due diligence.

People are complaining about fake vents on a car. Enthusiasts are hard to please, very hard to please. People wouldn't buy the supra if it didn't have a straight 6. But then people would complain it wasn't an iron block. Then complain it's a BMW motor. Complain it's a BMW body/parts/ etc....

There's no chance to please anyone unless you just make the car for its first generation and then build on it so it gets only better and better. Then people's perception changes over time.

How do people complaining about fake vents relate to an aluminum block being able to hold the power goals of 99% of the population?
I understand people will complain about anything and everything, I am just saying there is no point in holding out on a iron block model unless youre plan is 1000whp+ from the start

 

[Modal170]

How do people complaining about fake vents relate to an aluminum block being able to hold the power goals of 99% of the population?
I understand people will complain about anything and everything, I am just saying there is no point in holding out on a iron block model unless youre plan is 1000whp+ from the start

I was just saying while Toyota will make sure this Iron block will invoke both nostalgia from the mkiv days of throwing insane amounts of power without it blowing up and still be the reliable drivetrain that we expect of a Toyota brand , some people really are picky and wouldn't be happy with the car, even if all the checkmarks were ticked off.

It could be all Toyota, new I6 cast iron, impressive handling and be 55k and somehow, people would complain about the price or say, eh, I might as well get a Lexus or get this car or such and such.

I'm exaggerating but if this new I6 can hold more power than the B58 aluminum block, I'm all for it and can't wait to see it. Plus, people are timid about anything BMW related so a supra product with more Toyota involvement and heavier R&D should suggest a better vehicle.

 

[Nati Beastcat]

I've never believed that the Supra would have a full blown BMW motor laying under the hood. Hope there is some truth to this new "Toyota Iron block" rumor... WHEN THE HELL is the actual announcement with specs coming (rumors on that)?

If the iron block is true I'd imagine you'd see it thru all trim levels of the Supra with an I6 (not just the "GRMN"). The Supra has such a history it would actually shock me to see something just transplanted from BMW with Toyota badging. They're hiding something for us!!!!

 

[Nurburgring]

So all signs now point to a slight variation of the B58, at least in the launch model, just as we thought a few months ago before A70 distracted us with the new block (and then new engine) theories

It’s a solid engine, makes good power and has proven reliable.

I still believe we will see some significant differences under that ugly plastic cover. Twin exhaust piping in the goodwood car point to a biturbo configuration (like S55), while B58 is single turbo / single exhaust. We will see.

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