lordsajj
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Hey, new member on the forum here, I've been a long time lurker of these forums and the general collaboration of Toyota and BMW on the J29 ever since the initial announcement. Finally decided to make an account as we're getting closer to the official reveal at Geneva of the racing concept. Possibly considering trading my GTR in for this car provided it is truly a supra worthy successor. Car is looking good so far from what I have seen, but I would've rather had Toyota make its own engine for this project. However, I am keeping my mind open so time shall tell! Here's my car:
NoSupraForYou
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Hey all,
New to the forum, the recent news of the Supra has really captured my attention so I figured Iād join to see where this thing goes. Always been a fan of the older ones so Iām excited to see whatās in store for us. Hopefully itāll be exciting enough to pull me away from the S3/RS3s Iāve been looking into lately. Would share my car but itās a 2012 bonestock Sonata and we see plenty of those damn things anyway.
cheers
New to the forum, the recent news of the Supra has really captured my attention so I figured Iād join to see where this thing goes. Always been a fan of the older ones so Iām excited to see whatās in store for us. Hopefully itāll be exciting enough to pull me away from the S3/RS3s Iāve been looking into lately. Would share my car but itās a 2012 bonestock Sonata and we see plenty of those damn things anyway.
cheers
simply put
Member
hi everyone,
new member here with my first post! i probably won't post much if at all b/c i don't plan on owning the car, or any car honestly, but i wanted to post to respectfully counter what i perceive to be undue negativity towards the new supra.
i'm a huge supra and toyota fan in general. i'm in my mid 30's now but as a kid i worked for a toyota dealer which i feel i was so fortunate to drive more than a handful of 4th gen supra turbos and many other fun 80's and 90's model RWD manual toyota's including corolla's , mr. 2's, celica's, trucks, mini-vans. all super fun and you can instinctually feel the lineage between them.
as i said i want to counter some who are disappointed in the leaked specs and bmw lineage of the new supra with reasons why we all should be excited for the car because of what it is!
first i'll address the most controversial aspect of the new car, the bmw inline 6 and ZF 8 speed. some seem to think it'll have the old n55, some say it's the new b58. which ever one it'll be awesome. the leaked specs of 335hp and 332ib of tq. bmw tends to give their 6's a slight power bump with each generation so if those specs are true that suggest it's the n55. i think it'll be the b58 with around 355hp. either way with 3200 to 3300lbs to push this thing is gonna fly! the headline power doesn't exite too much unless you realize that these turbo bmw regularly dyno their manufacture rated power and torque numbers!
from what i remember a stock MK4 turbo dyno'd 260 to 265hp to the wheels while pushing about 100 lbs more. 4th gen turbo usually hit 104 to 106 in the qtr mile. the F10 5 series with the n55 did 104 to 106 in the qtr too at 4000 plus lbs! i've seen 106 to 110 trap speeds for f30 3 series! i'm expecting the supra to hit 112 to 116 on the qtr mile. that's mustang gt and 1le speed! not slow at all! 0 to 60 in 3.8 is totally believable.
we all want a manual but only porsche GT customers buy those /sic. i understand the reasons for not offering one in the supra. to me aside for engine options(4 or 6) these will be pretty much single spec cars. probably very few light options. think bmw M2 level of option list, very light. i suspect toyota to sell less than have of the amount of supra's to bmw's Z4. sports cars just don't sell like they did in the early 90's so to run that many different drivetrain options through the gauntlet of emissions testing for the supra doesn't make much since. i'm thinking that the toyota will have it's own parts codes so it can be serviced at toyota dealers.
toyota could do a lot worse than the ZF 8 speed. considering it'll instantly be the best auto in a toyota car. toyota's in house 8 and 10 speeds can't match it. it's close to the point that the DCT isn't necessary, in image only, cause the ZF is that good. 6 short and close ratios plus 2(still close) overdrive ratio's! sounds good to me! hell, even bmw is giving up it's own DCT(which is one of the better ones) for "reliability reasons" i.e. cost and lack of AWD capability. on the other hand if the supra were to offer a manual i would only want the M2/M3/M4 close ratio in house design by bmw. it's debut was in the 1M and was a definite upgrade of the getrag used in all e90 3 series/M products. that getrag has that classic sloppy bmw shifter feel and is in no ways on the level of the getrag from MK4 turbo's. if the supra had the no cost option(as bmw's do) of the getrag vs. the ZF it's ZF all day.
not only does this engine combo tend to overachieve performance wise they regularly overachieve in mpg's. every long term i've seen of the n55 6's has the 20 plus mpg's combined. seen as high as 24 mpg. that for 3600lbs 3 series. supra will be lighter and better aero. could we see 25 mpg? if anything close shame on you ecoboost! the bmw straight 6 and ZF8 combo is thought by many to be the best drivetrain combo outside porsche flat 6/PDK or ferrari V8 or V12/DCT. overall it really can't be beat!
ok sorry i'm long winded at times.
chassis wise i'm exited too. so this thing is like 90% BMW with the last 10% being toyota or something like that. that last 10% being body and chassis tuning. question for any you is have either or you drivin Z3 coupe? M or non M? SO MUCH FUN! that sitting against the rear wheels feeling with smooth revving inline 6 up front. what a great driving experience! people begged for the return of the Z4 coupe. well, it's a toyota now. don't forget the MK4 turbo was a balanced sports car when left alone stock. i know i'm preaching to the choir but toyota knows how to do RWD. to me the prospect of 2 great companies with history of making great RWD sports cars is tantalizing!
to keep cost down i don't expect many driver aides and i don't expect we'll get a adjustable suspension. i'm pretty sure the last toyota sports car/performance car with a adjustable suspension was the MK3 supra! the MK4, LFA and lexus F cars also have non adjustable suspension. matter of fact the GSF non adjustable suspension is touted as one it's best selling points with a great ride and handling balance. i've read where the suspension setup is compared to the e39 M5 go figure, which may the best sports sedan of all time.
so don't fret! i, at least, have high faith in this new "supra". people dubbed the 86/BRZ a "toyobaru". should we call this one the "bupra"?.... No?!
i expect the top model to be around 45k here in the states. right in line with V8 camaros and mustangs. there's little reason to try to hit a lower price point, with significant head room for a more luxurious Z4. 95' supra turbos were 60K! then 96' came and they got i think was a 15k price cut for the final US model year? they debuted in 93' at 40k for the turbo.
long winded again.
discuss!
new member here with my first post! i probably won't post much if at all b/c i don't plan on owning the car, or any car honestly, but i wanted to post to respectfully counter what i perceive to be undue negativity towards the new supra.
i'm a huge supra and toyota fan in general. i'm in my mid 30's now but as a kid i worked for a toyota dealer which i feel i was so fortunate to drive more than a handful of 4th gen supra turbos and many other fun 80's and 90's model RWD manual toyota's including corolla's , mr. 2's, celica's, trucks, mini-vans. all super fun and you can instinctually feel the lineage between them.
as i said i want to counter some who are disappointed in the leaked specs and bmw lineage of the new supra with reasons why we all should be excited for the car because of what it is!
first i'll address the most controversial aspect of the new car, the bmw inline 6 and ZF 8 speed. some seem to think it'll have the old n55, some say it's the new b58. which ever one it'll be awesome. the leaked specs of 335hp and 332ib of tq. bmw tends to give their 6's a slight power bump with each generation so if those specs are true that suggest it's the n55. i think it'll be the b58 with around 355hp. either way with 3200 to 3300lbs to push this thing is gonna fly! the headline power doesn't exite too much unless you realize that these turbo bmw regularly dyno their manufacture rated power and torque numbers!
from what i remember a stock MK4 turbo dyno'd 260 to 265hp to the wheels while pushing about 100 lbs more. 4th gen turbo usually hit 104 to 106 in the qtr mile. the F10 5 series with the n55 did 104 to 106 in the qtr too at 4000 plus lbs! i've seen 106 to 110 trap speeds for f30 3 series! i'm expecting the supra to hit 112 to 116 on the qtr mile. that's mustang gt and 1le speed! not slow at all! 0 to 60 in 3.8 is totally believable.
we all want a manual but only porsche GT customers buy those /sic. i understand the reasons for not offering one in the supra. to me aside for engine options(4 or 6) these will be pretty much single spec cars. probably very few light options. think bmw M2 level of option list, very light. i suspect toyota to sell less than have of the amount of supra's to bmw's Z4. sports cars just don't sell like they did in the early 90's so to run that many different drivetrain options through the gauntlet of emissions testing for the supra doesn't make much since. i'm thinking that the toyota will have it's own parts codes so it can be serviced at toyota dealers.
toyota could do a lot worse than the ZF 8 speed. considering it'll instantly be the best auto in a toyota car. toyota's in house 8 and 10 speeds can't match it. it's close to the point that the DCT isn't necessary, in image only, cause the ZF is that good. 6 short and close ratios plus 2(still close) overdrive ratio's! sounds good to me! hell, even bmw is giving up it's own DCT(which is one of the better ones) for "reliability reasons" i.e. cost and lack of AWD capability. on the other hand if the supra were to offer a manual i would only want the M2/M3/M4 close ratio in house design by bmw. it's debut was in the 1M and was a definite upgrade of the getrag used in all e90 3 series/M products. that getrag has that classic sloppy bmw shifter feel and is in no ways on the level of the getrag from MK4 turbo's. if the supra had the no cost option(as bmw's do) of the getrag vs. the ZF it's ZF all day.
not only does this engine combo tend to overachieve performance wise they regularly overachieve in mpg's. every long term i've seen of the n55 6's has the 20 plus mpg's combined. seen as high as 24 mpg. that for 3600lbs 3 series. supra will be lighter and better aero. could we see 25 mpg? if anything close shame on you ecoboost! the bmw straight 6 and ZF8 combo is thought by many to be the best drivetrain combo outside porsche flat 6/PDK or ferrari V8 or V12/DCT. overall it really can't be beat!
ok sorry i'm long winded at times.
chassis wise i'm exited too. so this thing is like 90% BMW with the last 10% being toyota or something like that. that last 10% being body and chassis tuning. question for any you is have either or you drivin Z3 coupe? M or non M? SO MUCH FUN! that sitting against the rear wheels feeling with smooth revving inline 6 up front. what a great driving experience! people begged for the return of the Z4 coupe. well, it's a toyota now. don't forget the MK4 turbo was a balanced sports car when left alone stock. i know i'm preaching to the choir but toyota knows how to do RWD. to me the prospect of 2 great companies with history of making great RWD sports cars is tantalizing!
to keep cost down i don't expect many driver aides and i don't expect we'll get a adjustable suspension. i'm pretty sure the last toyota sports car/performance car with a adjustable suspension was the MK3 supra! the MK4, LFA and lexus F cars also have non adjustable suspension. matter of fact the GSF non adjustable suspension is touted as one it's best selling points with a great ride and handling balance. i've read where the suspension setup is compared to the e39 M5 go figure, which may the best sports sedan of all time.
so don't fret! i, at least, have high faith in this new "supra". people dubbed the 86/BRZ a "toyobaru". should we call this one the "bupra"?.... No?!
i expect the top model to be around 45k here in the states. right in line with V8 camaros and mustangs. there's little reason to try to hit a lower price point, with significant head room for a more luxurious Z4. 95' supra turbos were 60K! then 96' came and they got i think was a 15k price cut for the final US model year? they debuted in 93' at 40k for the turbo.
long winded again.
discuss!
Welcome to the forums! I think many of us feel the same way for the most part. Key thing is to understand that Toyota isn't just looking at photos of Supras and hearing stories secondhand about how they drove; their team has actively and extensively driven and experienced the MKIV Supra and have had that car in the forefront when designing this one. I've been in and around MKIVs since I was 9 years old, but I can assure you that Akio and Tada-San and the rest of their team have far more seat time than me.
Can they screw it up? Oh most certainly!
Will they screw it up? I really doubt it, but the only way to know is to drive it.
Also, fun fact: I have dynoed multiple bone stock MKIV turbo 6-spds at over 300whp, some at 320whp even (on a Dynojet). Underrated for sure!
Can they screw it up? Oh most certainly!
Will they screw it up? I really doubt it, but the only way to know is to drive it.
Also, fun fact: I have dynoed multiple bone stock MKIV turbo 6-spds at over 300whp, some at 320whp even (on a Dynojet). Underrated for sure!
Lexusisf
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Welcome also. I would agree with most of what you said, and canāt wait for the final road car versions targeted for north america. As a current LexusISF, for me and if we can beleive most of what has been said/leaked and the price point is inline, then I think this car will be awesome and will fill a void that exists today.
Last edited:
simply put
Member
their team has actively and extensively driven and experienced the MKIV Supra and have had that car in the forefront when designing this one. I've been in and around MKIVs since I was 9 years old, but I can assure you that Akio and Tada-San and the rest of their team have far more seat time than me.
Can they screw it up? Oh most certainly!
Will they screw it up? I really doubt it, but the only way to know is to drive it.
Also, fun fact: I have dynoed multiple bone stock MKIV turbo 6-spds at over 300whp, some at 320whp even (on a Dynojet). Underrated for sure![/QUOTE]
essentially what i mean. toyota has really done sports cars one way going back to the 2000gt. not withstand a change in drivetrain configuration and the use of turbos their sports cars have been relatively simple. and well designed from the get go. i really think the idea of a toyota sports car will shine through the bmw bits.
Can they screw it up? Oh most certainly!
Will they screw it up? I really doubt it, but the only way to know is to drive it.
Also, fun fact: I have dynoed multiple bone stock MKIV turbo 6-spds at over 300whp, some at 320whp even (on a Dynojet). Underrated for sure![/QUOTE]
essentially what i mean. toyota has really done sports cars one way going back to the 2000gt. not withstand a change in drivetrain configuration and the use of turbos their sports cars have been relatively simple. and well designed from the get go. i really think the idea of a toyota sports car will shine through the bmw bits.
Timster1990
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the MK3 had adjustable suspension from the factory?
MA617M
Well-Known Member
TEMS!
Also, anyone read up on the ZF8? Interesting points to note
- It can hold A LOT of torque.
- The torque converter can be replaced with either a launch clutch OR a 47hp electric motor.
Perhaps there's something in the selection of this transmission that hints at Toyota's plans for the SPX
MA617M
Well-Known Member
Yep, and keeping in mind the documents I read were old. I'm sure there's newer and cooler things in the pipeline
Hopefully a neutral function like in the GT3RS... (hold both paddles to "disengage clutch")
Hopefully a neutral function like in the GT3RS... (hold both paddles to "disengage clutch")
Jeff Lange
Well-Known Member
Been around for a couple of years, just signed up to reply to a thread, so I guess I'm here now, haha. As someone with a long history of owning and modifying Supras and other Toyotas, I am looking forward to see what this car is, and have a strong feeling I will need to buy one.
Assuming it's not a huge let down that is.
Oh, and a manual transmission please.
Jeff
Assuming it's not a huge let down that is.
Oh, and a manual transmission please.
Jeff
TX3i2Supra
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Another long time lurker who thought it would be a good time to join the conversation with (just looking at the countdown clockā¦) less than 6 days to go before the race version reveal.
No engineer (an accountant just quietly) & was initially confounded by some of the jargon used here (Google & Wikipedia really come into their own let me tell you) but you guys are incredibly knowledgeable & obviously deeply passionate about this car & I've hugely enjoyed the banter, in depth discussions & renderings.
Bought my dream car, an '89 Ford Laser TX3i, new 29 years ago (still looks new btw) & have never thought about replacing it until now. Fell in love with the GT86 & had the test drive, etc, but thought would wait a while until they ironed out any problems it had. Well things change pretty quickly & was diagnosed last year with something 'rare, nasty & aggressive'. Thankfully, it looks like I've beaten it but it changed my whole outlook about enjoying things while you can (carpe diem & all that).
I've read here that some are going to wait a few years until the wrinkles in this new car have been ironed out but I will not be one of them.
I have no doubts that this will be an amazing car & cannot wait to see the production model & fully intend to be first in line to buy one.
Someone mentioned voodoo blue as a color option (which I googled as images) which would look awesome with black trims/wheels. Will go for the white as second choice.
(PS - also that San Diago = whales vagina comment - hi-larious (though had to google that as well)).
Cheers.
No engineer (an accountant just quietly) & was initially confounded by some of the jargon used here (Google & Wikipedia really come into their own let me tell you) but you guys are incredibly knowledgeable & obviously deeply passionate about this car & I've hugely enjoyed the banter, in depth discussions & renderings.
Bought my dream car, an '89 Ford Laser TX3i, new 29 years ago (still looks new btw) & have never thought about replacing it until now. Fell in love with the GT86 & had the test drive, etc, but thought would wait a while until they ironed out any problems it had. Well things change pretty quickly & was diagnosed last year with something 'rare, nasty & aggressive'. Thankfully, it looks like I've beaten it but it changed my whole outlook about enjoying things while you can (carpe diem & all that).
I've read here that some are going to wait a few years until the wrinkles in this new car have been ironed out but I will not be one of them.
I have no doubts that this will be an amazing car & cannot wait to see the production model & fully intend to be first in line to buy one.
Someone mentioned voodoo blue as a color option (which I googled as images) which would look awesome with black trims/wheels. Will go for the white as second choice.
(PS - also that San Diago = whales vagina comment - hi-larious (though had to google that as well)).
Cheers.
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