Formula 1 Talk

[Dannyvandelft]

I'll just concede, you win bud. I'm not going to argue when it's clear you do not have any interest in seeing things without your blinders on. Cheers, enjoy the RB and Max dominance.

Yeah I'm the one with blinders on Just say you're biased, and leave it at that.

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[FLtrackdays]

I'll just concede, you win bud. I'm not going to argue when it's clear you do not have any interest in seeing things without your blinders on. Cheers, enjoy the RB and Max dominance.

No win or loose. You both have great takes and opinions. Great takes from both of ya!

 

[johnnyskids]

No win or loose. You both have great takes and opinions. Great takes from both of ya!

There's a little difference between my takes and his. I am able to admit area's where he is right, and see his side and come up with factual data. He relies on speculation and refuses to give any kind of consideration as for what points I put forth. It's okay, the world is literally full of people like him, I deal with this all the time.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

There's a little difference between my takes and his. I am able to admit area's where he is right, and see his side and come up with factual data. He relies on speculation and refuses to give any kind of consideration as for what points I put forth. It's okay, the world is literally full of people like him, I deal with this all the time.

What factual data? If you make points that are correct, I'll happily say so. Problem is, you haven't. You agree with me at times, because what I'm saying is right. All I've read from you are opinions, nothing more. And since you're determined to base everything on "I don't like Max" it's nothing but bias.
If you prove me wrong, I'd happily admit to it. Problem is, you can't. I am a fan of Max, and of Alonso, and of Norris, but (and this goes back to being Dutch) I can say when any of them are wrong. In Brazil, Max was wrong. He should've let Perez by. This weekend, he wasn't. He was disappointed his car broke in qualifying so he couldn't fight for the win. Only biased anti-Max fans find something wrong with that.

 

[johnnyskids]

What factual data? If you make points that are correct, I'll happily say so. Problem is, you haven't. You agree with me at times, because what I'm saying is right. All I've read from you are opinions, nothing more. And since you're determined to base everything on "I don't like Max" it's nothing but bias.
If you prove me wrong, I'd happily admit to it. Problem is, you can't. I am a fan of Max, and of Alonso, and of Norris, but (and this goes back to being Dutch) I can say when any of them are wrong. In Brazil, Max was wrong. He should've let Perez by. This weekend, he wasn't. He was disappointed his car broke in qualifying so he couldn't fight for the win. Only biased anti-Max fans find something wrong with that.

As I said, you won, I am not going to argue with you. It’s okay man, you either can’t see or refuse to see my points. It’s okay, you are common in this trait, a lot of people live in a world they choose to only see what they want.

My dislike of Max has nothing to do with his abilities as a driver, it’s 100% about how he treats others. Some people are okay when people treat “the help” like crap while other people (like myself) feel the greatest measure of someone’s value is how they treat others.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

As I said, you won, I am not going to argue with you. It’s okay man, you either can’t see or refuse to see my points. It’s okay, you are common in this trait, a lot of people live in a world they choose to only see what they want.

My dislike of Max has nothing to do with his abilities as a driver, it’s 100% about how he treats others. Some people are okay when people treat “the help” like crap while other people (like myself) feel the greatest measure of someone’s value is how they treat others.

I'm not arguing. Haven't been. How do you know how he treats others? By what the media tells you? The same media that just happened to not show Jos Verstappen congratulate Perez? The same media that reported Max skipped out on a team meeting while the team themselves excused Max so he could get better? Maybe you should consider your sources before you go spouting "truths".
Perez's radio calls? He can't hear which calls Max gets.

P.S. he got the same calls at the same time.

Your opinions are completely unfounded.

 

[johnnyskids]

I'm not arguing. Haven't been. How do you know how he treats others? By what the media tells you? The same media that just happened to not show Jos Verstappen congratulate Perez? The same media that reported Max skipped out on a team meeting while the team themselves excused Max so he could get better? Maybe you should consider your sources before you go spouting "truths".
Perez's radio calls? He can't hear which calls Max gets.

P.S. he got the same calls at the same time.

Your opinions are completely unfounded.

How about I play along with just that last part. At no point did I say anything about his father or that team meeting. I only referenced Perez reaction to being told to slow down, and Max’s statements after the race.

So if you go back to this specific race. These are FACTS and you can look up the transcript to verify. Both Max and Perez were told to slow down to 1:33 which would keep their lead over Alonzo. Perez asked what Max is doing, they tell him 1:32 and change, so he questions why he is being asked to slow down and seeing what Max was told.

Here’s the part you leave out, what was Max’s response? He is told over and over, lap by lap, to hit 1:33. His response, silence. What was he doing on track, oh that’s right, he was still pushing into the 1:32’s. Lap after lap. What was Perez doing, he too was pushing into the 1:32’s, why you ask, because Max has a history of ignoring team orders and only doing what is best for Max. During this time Perez states that he doesn’t understand why they are still pushing because the cars have issues and run the risk of not finishing. With around 10 laps to go Max realizes that he can’t catch Perez, so he eases off. All this time not saying anything to the team over the radio, until there is 4 laps to go. This is when he goes on the radio and says, what’s the fastest lap, the team tells him that they are not concerned with the fastest lap, at which point he says “well I do care”, and they tell him it’s XX time. He likely figured that Perez had the fastest lap so he decided to go for it on the last lap, which he did get. Keeping a lead in the championship, but again ignoring his team, doing what is best for him, and risking not finishing.

All of what I just said is facts, go look at the transcripts. Now I know you will interpret these interactions differently, or make up reasons why he would do this, etc. So again, I know you won’t be able to see or believe these FACTS. I’m wasting my time completely.

How he treats people is 100% from Max’s words, and actions. Not from media. Plus I admit that he could be a super nice person in real life off the track. No idea, just judging from what I see and hear from HIM.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

How about I play along with just that last part. At no point did I say anything about his father or that team meeting. I only referenced Perez reaction to being told to slow down, and Max’s statements after the race.

So if you go back to this specific race. These are FACTS and you can look up the transcript to verify. Both Max and Perez were told to slow down to 1:33 which would keep their lead over Alonzo. Perez asked what Max is doing, they tell him 1:32 and change, so he questions why he is being asked to slow down and seeing what Max was told.

Here’s the part you leave out, what was Max’s response? He is told over and over, lap by lap, to hit 1:33. His response, silence. What was he doing on track, oh that’s right, he was still pushing into the 1:32’s. Lap after lap. What was Perez doing, he too was pushing into the 1:32’s, why you ask, because Max has a history of ignoring team orders and only doing what is best for Max. During this time Perez states that he doesn’t understand why they are still pushing because the cars have issues and run the risk of not finishing. With around 10 laps to go Max realizes that he can’t catch Perez, so he eases off. All this time not saying anything to the team over the radio, until there is 4 laps to go. This is when he goes on the radio and says, what’s the fastest lap, the team tells him that they are not concerned with the fastest lap, at which point he says “well I do care”, and they tell him it’s XX time. He likely figured that Perez had the fastest lap so he decided to go for it on the last lap, which he did get. Keeping a lead in the championship, but again ignoring his team, doing what is best for him, and risking not finishing.

All of what I just said is facts, go look at the transcripts. Now I know you will interpret these interactions differently, or make up reasons why he would do this, etc. So again, I know you won’t be able to see or believe these FACTS. I’m wasting my time completely.

How he treats people is 100% from Max’s words, and actions. Not from media. Plus I admit that he could be a super nice person in real life off the track. No idea, just judging from what I see and hear from HIM.

What you see and hear from him, you see and hear what the media let's you see and hear.

I read the transcripts too. They got the same calls, at the same time.
Perez of course calls on the team to settle things down, because he knows that will mean he leads the championship. Which is exactly why Max went for it, because he wants to keep the lead.
It's not rocket science. Again your bias is coming through. What racing driver would be ok giving up the lead in the championship willingly? Name me 1.

Max backed off for a few laps to cool his tires, charges his batteries, and went for it.

Here's something you might not know, Perez actually did too, but he screwed up in the first sector and had to abandon.

They are racing drivers, not a social club.

 

[johnnyskids]

What you see and hear from him, you see and hear what the media let's you see and hear.

I read the transcripts too. They got the same calls, at the same time.
Perez of course calls on the team to settle things down, because he knows that will mean he leads the championship. Which is exactly why Max went for it, because he wants to keep the lead.
It's not rocket science. Again your bias is coming through. What racing driver would be ok giving up the lead in the championship willingly? Name me 1.

Max backed off for a few laps to cool his tires, charges his batteries, and went for it.

Here's something you might not know, Perez actually did too, but he screwed up in the first sector and had to abandon.

They are racing drivers, not a social club.

You got me, I am not in person hearing his words or seeing his actions. Got me on that technicality. I concede, I concede. As I stated above, I knew you would be unable to accept the facts or admit these statements and actions from Max.

The truth hurts and internal reflection is hard. I get it, much easier to just keep plugging away with your blinders on.

As I stated earlier, enjoy the RB and Max dominance this year. It’s going to be great for RB and Max fans.

 

[Moorman]

Here’s the part you leave out, what was Max’s response?

Is F1 the pinnacle of racing or a primer for considerate driving etiquette? Name a prior championship driver that religiously followed team orders. Max has had a car that suits him, so did Hamilton for a # of years...so did Vettel, etc etc. Perez touches on the groove but doesn't quite seize it (but I like the guy). It's pushing the limit from both team & driver that make this sport interesting.

Personally I'm pulling for Alonso because, old guy, he's not supposed to lead. Otherwise, exciting racing is exciting & I love any team that can push the tech.

 

[mortavious]

What you see and hear from him, you see and hear what the media let's you see and hear.

Alternative facts from the fake news media!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

You got me, I am not in person hearing his words or seeing his actions. Got me on that technicality. I concede, I concede. As I stated above, I knew you would be unable to accept the facts or admit these statements and actions from Max.

The truth hurts and internal reflection is hard. I get it, much easier to just keep plugging away with your blinders on.

As I stated earlier, enjoy the RB and Max dominance this year. It’s going to be great for RB and Max fans.

Ah yes, your nonsense gets debunked again, and it's blinders on and "the truth hurts" when I'm reciting exactly what happened.

Ok

 

[johnnyskids]

He was asked to slow down .4 of a second per lap. As was Max, who slowed down as well. Later on they were BOTH told free to push. If you're going to say things, say them right.

The people with blinders on, are "fans" like you who think everything is a conspiracy.



You are correct that they were both told to slow down at the same time. Perez questioned that by asking what Max’s speed was, then asked why he should slow down if Max was still pushing. It’s a fair question. Meanwhile, Max is told the same thing, over and over, lap after lap, no response from Max on the subject. But his actions were that he kept pushing. These are facts. There is no conspiracy or media slant to this.



That "screwing over" has gone both ways. Or did you forget about Perez's convenient spin in Monaco as Max was on a pole lap in qualifying?
It's not just Max. And Perez should worry more about Ricciardo. Max was told by his engineer to keep pace, Max decided on his own to go for fastest lap. Perez could've done that too, but didn't.



Perez’s spin at last years Monaco ended qualifying early and Max was on pace for pole. These are facts. I will admit them. Whether Perez spun on purpose or by accident, the only person who knows the truth is Perez. Is it possible, of course, but it’s also possible that he spun by accident. You refuse to admit that could be a possibility. The other possibility, Perez doesn’t spin and Max doesn’t end up with pole. We will never know for sure. You use this to justify his poor behavior going forward, even though he won a championship and the constructors easily. Your dig about Ric being a worry for Perez, again, this is just you taking an opportunity to put Perez down, when in fact the chances of Ric taking Perez’s job is really small.



Taking cues, and copying are very different things. The AM is almost identical to the RB18. They hired RBR personnel for one reason, to get a faster car. And they succeeded. That’s not a conspiracy, but fact. Red Bull employees work at AM, their car looks like the RB18, and they’re faster than last year. Undeniable.

Mercedes is stuck in their design meaning their car is so radically different, that things that work on the RB19 or AM won’t work on the Merc. Simply because it’s so different. Doesn’t make them old, or stuck in their ways, they just need to develop things that work for their car. They can’t copy anything, because nobody has that design.

2022 could’ve been like 2021, Ferrari had the upper hand for a long time. But you know Ferrari does what Ferrari does with their strategy. Add in a few stupid mistakes by Leclerc, and boom championship gone. RBR did what they had to do, Ferrari didn’t.

The only cars that are identical are from each team. All these designs are vetted by F1 to ensure there is no copyright infringement. Sharing common traits is something that has always been present in F1. Stating that AM now has former RB employees, that happens literally every year, not exactly noteworthy. Teams are constantly poaching key players from other teams, it’s part of the sport. But to say that AM is a copy, in the sense that the only difference is the engine and powertrain, is false. They share traits and concepts, but so does every F1 team. I do not deny the facts that AM now has ex-RB members on their team, but you don’t want to admit that this is common and happens literally every off season, which is again, a fact.





That's exactly my point. It happens everywhere. Just look at how Mick was treated by HAAS last year. Of course Perez's spin was intentional. Nobody ever happens to spin there all weekend, but the pole sitter JUST happens to spin while Max is up. Same as Rosberg and Schumacher "accidentally" out braking themselves in years before to clinch pole. Remember, Monaco pole is the most important one, because you can't pass. Perez is a fine driver, and there's no way that wasn't intended. And that directly resulted in Brazil. It's all connected. I think we're going to see teammate fireworks at multiple teams this year. Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren, because Piastri was all over Norris, and so on.

Again, you attest that Perez spin was intentional, but that is speculation. The only person who knows for sure is Perez. I have admitted that it’s possible that he did spin intentionally, but it’s also possible that it was not intentional. You use this speculation to justify his actions in the Brazil race, when he had nothing to play for as he already won the championship and was just taking the opportunity to pay back Perez. The fact is, he chose not to give Perez back the place, Max’s intentions, well that’s speculation, much like Perez’s spin.





All you have to do is watch the Japanese Grand Prix, and see how they screwed him.

That's another example of being misunderstood because he's Dutch.
He's just saying without the problem in qualifying he would've been able to fight for the win. Of course it sucks. You have the fastest car, the best strategy, but you start in 15th. Who wouldn't be pissed with that? Name me a driver, any driver, that has that but is happy coming 2nd? Absolutely no-one. They're all there to win. And every single one of them would be pissed if they could've been P1 but got P2 instead. If they didn't they wouldn't be racers.

Mick’s treatment at Haas, honestly, I don’t know enough about it to say. I mean we are talking about back markers. But the fact is, Mick crashed the Haas car over and over, costing the team a lot of money, the poorest team in F1. That’s probably why they chose to favor KMag, and let Mick go in the offseason. Again, you won’t confirm the fact that Mick crashed a lot, and that maybe the reason KMag was favored is because he was getting more points while also not wrecking the car.



What factual data? If you make points that are correct, I'll happily say so. Problem is, you haven't. You agree with me at times, because what I'm saying is right. All I've read from you are opinions, nothing more. And since you're determined to base everything on "I don't like Max" it's nothing but bias.
If you prove me wrong, I'd happily admit to it. Problem is, you can't. I am a fan of Max, and of Alonso, and of Norris, but (and this goes back to being Dutch) I can say when any of them are wrong. In Brazil, Max was wrong. He should've let Perez by. This weekend, he wasn't. He was disappointed his car broke in qualifying so he couldn't fight for the win. Only biased anti-Max fans find something wrong with that.

This statement above clearly shows your unwillingness to either acknowledge the facts that I made above, or directly address the possibilities I outlined. I admit my dislike for Max the person, not the driver. At no point do I say that he’s not an amazing driver. That’s certainly a fact. Basing why you like someone solely on their driving ability is not what I do, I look at the person, their actions, and how they treat others. I will admit that none on the grid are perfect individuals, they are all cutthroat. Just some are more than other, and the way they go about it can vary greatly. I dislike Max mostly for his actions and what he says, it’s not based off media opinions, it’s based off words spoken from his mouth, on live TV, and his actions. Why do I target Max and not others, while it’s simple, I feel like Perez is the best teammate on the grid. He’s who you want behind you as your partner. Is he the best driver, heck no, but as far as defending for his teammate, he’s one of the best. Because of that, I feel like the way Max treats him is unjustified for the most part and he certainly doesn’t give enough credit to him.



I'm not arguing. Haven't been. How do you know how he treats others? By what the media tells you? The same media that just happened to not show Jos Verstappen congratulate Perez? The same media that reported Max skipped out on a team meeting while the team themselves excused Max so he could get better? Maybe you should consider your sources before you go spouting "truths".
Perez's radio calls? He can't hear which calls Max gets.

P.S. he got the same calls at the same time.

Your opinions are completely unfounded.

You say “by what the media tells you”, but you aren’t listening to what I’m saying. I base it on actions, these are unfiltered from the race track and immediately after the races. His words I’m referring to are either from what he says on track, or his responses to questions live after the races. These again are unfiltered, “from the horses mouth”, without any manipulation from “media”. You bring up his father and that Max wasn’t at a team meeting, you again are adding things that I did not say or bring up, you are just assuming that this is where my opinions are coming from. You said that I’m spouting “truths”, but this would imply that I stated the things about Jos and Max’s team meeting, which I did not.



What you see and hear from him, you see and hear what the media let's you see and hear.

I read the transcripts too. They got the same calls, at the same time.
Perez of course calls on the team to settle things down, because he knows that will mean he leads the championship. Which is exactly why Max went for it, because he wants to keep the lead.
It's not rocket science. Again your bias is coming through. What racing driver would be ok giving up the lead in the championship willingly? Name me 1.

Max backed off for a few laps to cool his tires, charges his batteries, and went for it.

Here's something you might not know, Perez actually did too, but he screwed up in the first sector and had to abandon.

They are racing drivers, not a social club.

You read the transcripts but refuse to address what I laid out above, the facts of those transcripts. You state that Perez calls the team to settle things down because he knows he will lead the championship. Which I will admit could be a reason why he did that, but you won’t admit that it may be because both cars had issues and there was a real worry that the cars, if pushed, may not make it to the end, or be compromised. At no point did I say that Perez didn’t attempt to improve on his fastest lap. But tell me, why would he do so? If it was clear no other driver or team was capable of beating his time other than Max, and no team pitted with fresh soft tires to go for the fastest lap, which typically happens every race. Could he maybe have gone for the fastest lap because he knew that Max would go for it regardless of team orders? I merely pointed out that Max went for the fastest lap regardless of team orders. That being said, his team shouldn’t have told him he couldn’t. I mean the only reason he maybe shouldn’t is if there was a risk that the car would break. Other than that, he should be trying to get that extra point to stay in the lead for the Championship. Max is the better driver, that a certainty, it would be shocking if anyone else comes close to challenging him this year (likely only Perez will be within spitting distance by the summer break). I was using that as another example of Max going against team orders.



Now it’s your turn Danny, go through my posts and debunk what I say or agree with facts that I laid out. I don’t think you will, because it would mean admitting some of my points have merit. This is my mic drop, I did what you asked, I highlighted facts, I gave you credit for any facts that you laid out, and I gave plausible interpretations of things that Max has done.



The self-reflection and blinders that I state are highlighted in your lack of ability to see merit or facts in the statements that I laid out. Whereas you even admit that I in fact agree and confirm facts and opinions that you laid out. I am capable of self-reflection, and I don’t have blinders on when talking F1. I know that the reason you fight this so much is because change is hard, and you want to win. I’m not asking you to change, I’m stating that you win, and I’m saying that it’s okay for you to keep your blinders on because that’s what most of society does. It’s okay man, we can just enjoy F1 in our own ways.

 

[johnnyskids]

Is F1 the pinnacle of racing or a primer for considerate driving etiquette? Name a prior championship driver that religiously followed team orders. Max has had a car that suits him, so did Hamilton for a # of years...so did Vettel, etc etc. Perez touches on the groove but doesn't quite seize it (but I like the guy). It's pushing the limit from both team & driver that make this sport interesting.

Personally I'm pulling for Alonso because, old guy, he's not supposed to lead. Otherwise, exciting racing is exciting & I love any team that can push the tech.

F1 is the pinnacle of car racing, is it the primer for considerate driving etiquette, definitely not. Every driver chooses to ignore team orders from time to time, Max seems to do it a lot more, but I will admit that it might be highlighted by the media due to RB being a dominate team. You certainly don't hear so much of this from the back markers, but you do certainly hear about it from the bigger teams, not just RB. The reality is, if you are a Champion, you will be under the microscope more than others. Not saying it's fair, but that's the reality.

Perez showed in this past race that he is a lot closer to Max than people wanted to admit, on this track, with the same times, and same car. Over 15 laps, Max was only able to take about 1 second out of the lead that Perez had. So Max is faster, but Perez definitely isn't slow, at least in this race.

I too am pulling for Alonso, he's kind of the bad guy on the track and embraces that role, in a good way.

As you said, exciting racing is just exciting and I too love teams that push the tech to the limit. The issue this year is it appears, at least for now, there is only one team that is reaching the top and all the others are fighting for 2nd place. That's less exciting, plus you know damn well there won't be a fight for the championship in the last race of the year between Perez and Max, Max is just too dominate and the team will push him to that number one spot (as they should as he is their number one driver). At the very least, I hope that RB allows them to race a bit and try to let Perez stay in the race a little longer for the Championship, if only for our own entertainment.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

The self-reflection and blinders that I state are highlighted in your lack of ability to see merit or facts in the statements that I laid out.

But you haven't laid out any facts, or said anything with merit. All your nonsense you're spouting is pure bias. So maybe start there?

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