Formula 1 Talk

[FLtrackdays]

Alonso being this happy? Not for quite awhile. He is certainly enjoying himself. Have to admit that Max hasn’t been so unlikeable this season either, I hope it’s him maturing, but I suspect it might be because he is so far ahead of the pack.

Yeah, I haven’t seen anything to dislike about any of these guys honestly. Lots of respect for each other. I thought Alonzo had television lessons or something. He does seem as happy as a pig in ? and for that, I won’t hate papa Stroll as much. Max is just Max. He seems to need a friend. And Christian is not it. He comes across mechanical. Like his driving. Extreme perfectionist. He’ll definitely mature over time. But damn his driving is so good. Doesn’t he ever slam into walls like the other guys? Perez knows how to hit fixed objects, like everyone else.

Sponsored

 

[johnnyskids]

Yeah, I haven’t seen anything to dislike about any of these guys honestly. Lots of respect for each other. I thought Alonzo had television lessons or something. He does seem as happy as a pig in ? and for that, I won’t hate papa Stroll as much. Max is just Max. He seems to need a friend. And Christian is not it. He comes across mechanical. Like his driving. Extreme perfectionist. He’ll definitely mature over time. But damn his driving is so good. Doesn’t he ever slam into walls like the other guys? Perez knows how to hit fixed objects, like everyone else.

Max has and will slam into walls, but only if someone is actually fast enough to make him push the limits. He hasn't had to do that this season at all really, and last season only on occasion. The years prior to that, when they were closely contending with Mercedes and Lewis, he would push to the absolute extremes more often. But right now, there is no reason to push that hard, heck even giving up the front row in qualifying isn't a big deal to them as they know their race pace will get them ahead within a few laps.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Canadian GP..... pretty much F1 2023 lol

Canadian Grand Prix In A Nutshell - YouTube

 

[FLtrackdays]

Max has and will slam into walls, but only if someone is actually fast enough to make him push the limits. He hasn't had to do that this season at all really, and last season only on occasion. The years prior to that, when they were closely contending with Mercedes and Lewis, he would push to the absolute extremes more often. But right now, there is no reason to push that hard, heck even giving up the front row in qualifying isn't a big deal to them as they know their race pace will get them ahead within a few laps.

You mean pushing beyond his limit. True. Right now, his limit is really hard to beat. I think if they put Stroll, Nyck de Vries, Sargeant, or Zhou to name a few, in his car, there‘d be no comparison.

 

[johnnyskids]

You mean pushing beyond his limit. True. Right now, his limit is really hard to beat. I think if they put Stroll, Nyck de Vries, Sargeant, or Zhou to name a few, in his car, there‘d be no comparison.

No doubt, it's not just the car, Max is one of the best drivers on the grid. I'd put him Lewis and Alonso in the same tier. The next tier down I'd have Leclerc, Norris, Russel. Max only really pushes his limit in qualifying and rarely ever goes beyond that limit. In race he has no need to drive at the limit, he's just so fast at 9/10ths that he is playing the smart game and choosing to be cautious rather than trying to push his luck (when there is no need).

 

[Dannyvandelft]

You mean pushing beyond his limit. True. Right now, his limit is really hard to beat. I think if they put Stroll, Nyck de Vries, Sargeant, or Zhou to name a few, in his car, there‘d be no comparison.

When his car was slower than the Mercedes, he had no choice but to push to the limit, and beyond, to win. And he did. He didn't only win in the fastest car, he's won in the second and third fastest car too. A lot of Champions can't say the same. As far as accidents and such go, all the greatest drivers have that. Senna was famous for it. Of all the drivers I've seen since Senna, Max comes closest. His driving style, raw talent, the ability to extract the absolute maximum when needed, his attitude towards winning and racing, all just like Senna.

 

[FLtrackdays]

No doubt, it's not just the car, Max is one of the best drivers on the grid. I'd put him Lewis and Alonso in the same tier. The next tier down I'd have Leclerc, Norris, Russel. Max only really pushes his limit in qualifying and rarely ever goes beyond that limit. In race he has no need to drive at the limit, he's just so fast at 9/10ths that he is playing the smart game and choosing to be cautious rather than trying to push his luck (when there is no need).

When his car was slower than the Mercedes, he had no choice but to push to the limit, and beyond, to win. And he did. He didn't only win in the fastest car, he's won in the second and third fastest car too. A lot of Champions can't say the same. As far as accidents and such go, all the greatest drivers have that. Senna was famous for it. Of all the drivers I've seen since Senna, Max comes closest. His driving style, raw talent, the ability to extract the absolute maximum when needed, his attitude towards winning and racing, all just like Senna.

Good points. It’s much easier when you’re out front.

I just haven’t seen him let a situation get the best of him yet… A good buddy that races professionally and teaches stunt drivers, drives at his limit/edge (100%) and yet in full control. Race day, they always push it to the Max (pun intended). The F1 cars are so much faster however and you don’t have as much wiggle room. So I think Max can drive at his limit w/out issue, knowing 99-100% like the back of his hand. At least that’s how it seems to me. But like you guys said, when they go over 100% and attempt correcting it, these other drivers (except Hamilton and Alonzo) just don’t have the same composure when over their limit, 100%. Those top 3 appear so damn connected to their cars.

Gotta say, Hulkenberg looked really composed this last race. Dude really got himself out of some sticky situations. Great car control. But that’s where the whole team comes into play. Great to watch!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Good points. It’s much easier when you’re out front.

I just haven’t seen him let a situation get the best of him yet… A good buddy that races professionally and teaches stunt drivers, drives at his limit/edge (100%) and yet in full control. Race day, they always push it to the Max (pun intended). The F1 cars are so much faster however and you don’t have as much wiggle room. So I think Max can drive at his limit w/out issue, knowing 99-100% like the back of his hand. At least that’s how it seems to me. But like you guys said, when they go over 100% and attempt correcting it, these other drivers (except Hamilton and Alonzo) just don’t have the same composure when over their limit, 100%. Those top 3 appear so damn connected to their cars.

Gotta say, Hulkenberg looked really composed this last race. Dude really got himself out of some sticky situations. Great car control. But that’s where the whole team comes into play. Great to watch!

It happened to Max when he was new. He was 18 and had less patience and less experience. The turning point came in Monaco. He was fastest of everyone all weekend, but crashed in FP3. The car was so damaged that he couldn't make qualifying and he had to start at the back. Ricciardo won that race, but had Max taken it easy in FP3, he'd have a great shot at pole and the win. After that he's been much more controlled. Just needed that eye opening moment. But Max will NEVER back down from a fight, and rightly so. Hamilton likes to give out taps to other cars, and Max will tap right back as we've seen plenty of times. Again, like Senna. Max is the best because he can win from anywhere. Front, middle, doesn't matter. And his stats reflect that. He has way more wins than poles, meaning he isn't relying on having to start from the front.

 

[romanLegion9574]

Yeah, I haven’t seen anything to dislike about any of these guys honestly. Lots of respect for each other. I thought Alonzo had television lessons or something. He does seem as happy as a pig in ? and for that, I won’t hate papa Stroll as much. Max is just Max. He seems to need a friend. And Christian is not it. He comes across mechanical. Like his driving. Extreme perfectionist. He’ll definitely mature over time. But damn his driving is so good. Doesn’t he ever slam into walls like the other guys? Perez knows how to hit fixed objects, like everyone else.

The RB is so damn good that Max doesn't really need to push beyond 9.5/10 to beat everyone else. In the Canadian GP, he had a bird in an intake and wasn't really even pushing and still won comfortably. I'd say Lewis and Alonso would be very similar if we swapped them into the RB and they learned its quirks.

Max was involved in some accidents back when there was still competition between Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull. There's a lot of argument there between driving at the limit and being reckless and dangerous.

Really comes down to amortized cost. No reason for him to go at the limit and risk a crash when 95% will get him a race win now, whereas 100% was needed to get him a race win back before the 2022 refresh, even at the expense of a crash.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

The RB is so damn good that Max doesn't really need to push beyond 9.5/10 to beat everyone else

You got that backwards. Max is so damn good that he really doesn't need to push the RB beyond 9.5/10 to beat everyone else.
If it was because of the car, his teammate would be right there next to him each race in P2 and not failing to make Q3 or failing to make his way through the field come race day.

 

[romanLegion9574]

You got that backwards. Max is so damn good that he really doesn't need to push the RB beyond 9.5/10 to beat everyone else.
If it was because of the car, his teammate would be right there next to him each race in P2 and not failing to make Q3 or failing to make his way through the field come race day.

It's a far jump to go from "the car is way better than the others" to "he's leagues better than all the other drivers, two legends included, because his teammate has been struggling to perform for 3 races".

If you were to hypothetically swap Max into the Merc or Aston, I don't think he's going to still be challenging for P1. Driver skill alone can't account for how easily the RBs pull away every race.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

It's a far jump to go from "the car is way better than the others" to "he's leagues better than all the other drivers, two legends included, because his teammate has been struggling to perform for 3 races".

If you were to hypothetically swap Max into the Merc or Aston, I don't think he's going to still be challenging for P1. Driver skill alone can't account for how easily the RBs pull away every race.

Sure it can. A car that is a handful to drive, but faster than anything else, requires a skillful driver. A car that's easy to drive, but still faster than anything else, requires less skill.

Look at the Mercedes era. They were always 1-2. Hamilton and Rosberg, Hamilton and Bottas, miles away from the field. Every. Single. Race. Just look how many 1-2 finishes they have.

The RB19 is very fast, but the difference between Red Bull and Aston Martin and Mercedes and Ferrari are smaller. And that's the difference. That's why Checo doesn't always come second. That's why he can't do what Max can in the same car. The tolerances are smaller between the cars, and Checo doesn't have the talent to make up the difference. Alonso is about to pass him for 2nd in the standings. And he's won 2 races. So that tells you everything.

For example: Alonso finished 9 seconds behind Max. Over 70 laps that's a little over a tenth of a second difference per lap. Alonso was nursing a problem for a bit, not to mention the time he lost being stuck behind Hamilton at the start of the race.
They say a great driver can extract an extra 2 to 3 tenths from a car, the best up to half a second. And that's exactly the difference between Max winning, and Perez being somewhere in 6th place or something.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I‘m personally leaning toward Max may be a GOAT in the making, for F1. Until I see him mentally break, RB needs to keep him at all co$t. Driving that long, consistently, while fighting to keep your job & not blow millions breaking the damn thing, takes a special kind of person for sure = Hamilton, Alonso, Max, Schumacher, Senna. They can bitch and moan - but damn they get back on it unlike the rest. Their mental rebound is outstanding on track or long term. Hamilton is a great case of this. Max 2 years ago. Alonzo now.

So I think both of you guys have valid points. McLovin ? this thread @RWhiz

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Think today was yet another example, the 4th in a row, that it's not the car in this case. If it was, Perez would be easily in Q3 every weekend, and on the first or second row each weekend.

Max is making the difference.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Think today was yet another example, the 4th in a row, that it's not the car in this case. If it was, Perez would be easily in Q3 every weekend, and on the first or second row each weekend.

Max is making the difference.

Oh snap ? Is it race time again??? Hot damnnnnnnn ? ?

Thanks for shouting out @Dannyvandelft

Sponsored