Formula 1 Talk

[Dannyvandelft]

I'd put George in the top 5 drivers I think.

I still wish Mercedes had taken a risk at the start of 2021 and put him in the No.2 seat.

That would've hurt Hamilton's title chances. Bottas was the perfect wingman. Gave up wins, poles, fastest lap points, took unnecesary engine penalties to test the "spicy" engine for Hamilton, not to mention when he went bowling in Hungary. There's a reason he says Bottas was his favorite teammate lol.

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[johnnyskids]

I really don't know, so I'll ask for opinions - is George good enough to win a championship if he's in a great car? I kind of think so but it seems that so many F1 drivers are pretty great that maybe he's actually just mid pack. Or top 10 but no way #1?

Trying to think of what team has the best cars right now. McLaren, it would seem. It was Mercedes for a while, then Red Bull for a while. But aside from McLaren which team's next best? One of them, maybe Ferrari, maybe another? Seems like Cadillac can't be as good as the others without at least a few years under their belt, and I'd think George would want at least some chance of being able to win.

Let's start by saying that F1 is very much so a team sport, so focusing on just the drivers ability isn't a good predictor in how they will finish the season in the driver standings. Many excellent drivers have been hampered by a poor team around them.

So if your question is, could George win with one of the best cars and teams in F1, certainly. Could he win with the 3rd fastest car and a decent team, I'd say that's probably a harder vision to see him at the top. So while I'd say George is certainly good enough to be a number one on a top team, but he's not on the level of a Max who can elevate the team and car above their rankings (just using a current example, there have been other drivers who have been able to do what Max did last season).

What's interesting about F1 is rarely is a team, car, driver so good that they are dominate at every track. Even the season where RB won almost every race, they still struggled heavily at one particular track (Singapore). So while McLaren might be the best overall car this season, there has been a number of tracks where they weren't the fastest car/team, and the season is that much better for it.

 

[romanLegion9574]

I really don't know, so I'll ask for opinions - is George good enough to win a championship if he's in a great car? I kind of think so but it seems that so many F1 drivers are pretty great that maybe he's actually just mid pack. Or top 10 but no way #1?

Trying to think of what team has the best cars right now. McLaren, it would seem. It was Mercedes for a while, then Red Bull for a while. But aside from McLaren which team's next best? One of them, maybe Ferrari, maybe another? Seems like Cadillac can't be as good as the others without at least a few years under their belt, and I'd think George would want at least some chance of being able to win.

There’s a new set of regulations for 2026, so we can’t really say who will be the best for next year yet. However, for 2025, McLaren is a step above the rest.

It’s possible Cadillac pulls a year 1 Cinderella story like the Las Vegas Golden Knights did, but I expect them to struggle in the midfield for a little bit.

Based on general team performance, I’d expect Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren to remain top 3, while Red Bull might fall off. The midfield is harder to predict.

As to your question about George, I think he could be a driver’s champion in a close competition with the top drivers taking points off each other and some luck, or with a dominant car. It’s hard to say exactly where he stacks up because the Mercedes of this era have been in a no man’s land, usually finishing in a lonely 5th to 8th place with big gaps to the front and the cars behind. I’d argue top 5 on the grid.

 

[Ron L]

There’s a new set of regulations for 2026, so we can’t really say who will be the best for next year yet. However, for 2025, McLaren is a step above the rest.

It’s possible Cadillac pulls a year 1 Cinderella story like the Las Vegas Golden Knights did, but I expect them to struggle in the midfield for a little bit.

Based on general team performance, I’d expect Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren to remain top 3, while Red Bull might fall off. The midfield is harder to predict.

As to your question about George, I think he could be a driver’s champion in a close competition with the top drivers taking points off each other and some luck, or with a dominant car. It’s hard to say exactly where he stacks up because the Mercedes of this era have been in a no man’s land, usually finishing in a lonely 5th to 8th place with big gaps to the front and the cars behind. I’d argue top 5 on the grid.

I see absolutely no way Cadillac will even run with the rest of the mid-fielders. The first year they will be lucky to score any points at all. They will be using Ferrari power and even Ferrari struggles near the front and Hass is doing well to run in the mid-field. Cadillac will suck for at least the first 2 or 3 years. The real question in my mind is; will they have the staying power to stick around like Hass has? Or will they decide being last isn't good for their image and drop out after 2 or 3 years at the back. F1 isn't like IMSA where the cars get BOP and Cadillac sometimes wins!

 

[johnnyskids]

I see absolutely no way Cadillac will even run with the rest of the mid-fielders. The first year they will be lucky to score any points at all. They will be using Ferrari power and even Ferrari struggles near the front and Hass is doing well to run in the mid-field. Cadillac will suck for at least the first 2 or 3 years. The real question in my mind is; will they have the staying power to stick around like Hass has? Or will they decide being last isn't good for their image and drop out after 2 or 3 years at the back. F1 isn't like IMSA where the cars get BOP and Cadillac sometimes wins!

More than likely you are right, but stating that there is "absolutely no way" is a bit too strong. Historically, first year team struggle mightily but there has been success stories, just few and far between. I'd be shocked if their first season they were any better than say 8th best team, but I won't be overly shocked if they aren't dead last.

As far as how long they'll stick around, one would think with the entry cost and how much they'll be investing, you'd think they will stick around for at least as long as the next regulations stand. Long term is much harder to predict. If they roster two vet drivers like Checo and Bottas, they could be able to fast track their development and get on good footing (meaning they'd be fighting for points more consistently, not wins or podiums). The first couple of seasons will be key for their survival, not that they need to win, just need to show steady progress.

 

[Ron L]

More than likely you are right, but stating that there is "absolutely no way" is a bit too strong. Historically, first year team struggle mightily but there has been success stories, just few and far between. I'd be shocked if their first season they were any better than say 8th best team, but I won't be overly shocked if they aren't dead last.

As far as how long they'll stick around, one would think with the entry cost and how much they'll be investing, you'd think they will stick around for at least as long as the next regulations stand. Long term is much harder to predict. If they roster two vet drivers like Checo and Bottas, they could be able to fast track their development and get on good footing (meaning they'd be fighting for points more consistently, not wins or podiums). The first couple of seasons will be key for their survival, not that they need to win, just need to show steady progress.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like nothing better than to see Cadillac do really well and be fighting for podiums by season 5... but I seriously doubt it.

You are right, that with the huge investment they will be making, they probably will stick around for some years... unless an acceptable buyer comes along...

 

[romanLegion9574]

That was a rough race to watch. Everyone with high downforce setups got screwed by the rain delay.

The FIA also shortening the DRS zones made passing a lot trickier; feels like they do stuff like this to justify dropping circuits.

 

[BrettS]

Race was good until it dried up. Then it instantly became a snooze fest.

 

[J29DB03]

If they drop Spa I’m dropping F1. I’ve never had any interest in these 90° corner, Hermann Tilke, Abu Dhabi, parking lot piece of shit tracks. If Spa’s gone, I’m gone.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

That race was a joke. Completely ruined by the race direction.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

I really look forward to Spa, this year was a let down. IDK, for me this has been one of the most uninteresting seasons I’ve ever had watching F1. Almost 20 years and meh… idk if it’s because Lewis isn’t in a Merc and floundering mid pack, that the racing seems ho hum or what. Couple years ago you told me that the Papaya cars would be battling out for the championship and Max wouldnt run away with a title I would’ve loved to have seen it. But man this has been lackluster for me, and I really like Norris and Piastri. I’m getting where I’m fast forwarding the races, watching the highlights for practice and qualifying. Hope next year will peak my interest more.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I really look forward to Spa, this year was a let down. IDK, for me this has been one of the most uninteresting seasons I’ve ever had watching F1. Almost 20 years and meh… idk if it’s because Lewis isn’t in a Merc and floundering mid pack, that the racing seems ho hum or what. Couple years ago you told me that the Papaya cars would be battling out for the championship and Max wouldnt run away with a title I would’ve loved to have seen it. But man this has been lackluster for me, and I really like Norris and Piastri. I’m getting where I’m fast forwarding the races, watching the highlights for practice and qualifying. Hope next year will peak my interest more.

100% agree. I feel exactly the same way. And I think it's because they're only winning because of the car. If Max or a prime Lewis or Alonso was in that car, Norris or Piastri wouldn't win shit. And none of the 3 mentioned would be all buddy buddy with their main competition. McLaren built an amazing car, but that's it. Max shouldn't have been able to win the Sprint with 2 cars on his ass a class faster than his. And that's the difference in driver skill and mentality. Max got fucked by the race direction to wait till it's basically dry. On a wet setup he couldn't attack Charles on a dry setup. It cost him in qualifying, and the race. McLaren were seen crying to the FIA on the grid, and they obviously listened.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I really look forward to Spa, this year was a let down. IDK, for me this has been one of the most uninteresting seasons I’ve ever had watching F1. Almost 20 years and meh… idk if it’s because Lewis isn’t in a Merc and floundering mid pack, that the racing seems ho hum or what. Couple years ago you told me that the Papaya cars would be battling out for the championship and Max wouldnt run away with a title I would’ve loved to have seen it. But man this has been lackluster for me, and I really like Norris and Piastri. I’m getting where I’m fast forwarding the races, watching the highlights for practice and qualifying. Hope next year will peak my interest more.

100% agree. I feel exactly the same way. And I think it's because they're only winning because of the car. If Max or a prime Lewis or Alonso was in that car, Norris or Piastri wouldn't win shit. And none of the 3 mentioned would be all buddy buddy with their main competition. McLaren built an amazing car, but that's it. Max shouldn't have been able to win the Sprint with 2 cars on his ass a class faster than his. And that's the difference in driver skill and mentality. Max got fucked by the race direction to wait till it's basically dry. On a wet setup he couldn't attack Charles on a dry setup. It cost him in qualifying, and the race. McLaren were seen crying to the FIA on the grid, and they obviously listened.

Agree with both of ya’s! Was talking to someone at work you wouldn’t think was into F1 who said the same thing. Norris and Oscar seem like really nice guys, McLaren is incredibly quick, but both are so boring!!!! Max fighting that RB on a knifes edge is way more exciting. Seeing how close Yuki can get to Max or if Mercedes (and Ferrari for that matter) can do anything to catch up is about as exciting as it’s gong to get this season. Unless they can dial Max’s car in just a pinch more or he can drive some more miracle races. Maybe Zach could add a 3rd driver and see how they all do

And Spa… to see one of my fav tracks ruined by who knows what (DRS or dry?) was a shame. It was like watching a larger Monaco . Besides Oscar‘s bold move in the beginning - major snooze fest. I literally got up & went to bed (worked all day - it wasn’t worth it).

 

[romanLegion9574]

Seeing how close Yuki can get to Max or if Mercedes (and Ferrari for that matter) can do anything to catch up is about as exciting as it’s gong to get this season.

I'm hoping George might pull out another race win or two, and that Ferrari gets their shit together and puts together a car that can actually win a full length race.

Although this weekend looked better for Yuki, it's worth noting he was 4/10s behind even after Max had massive wheelspin out of T1 which cost him 2, maybe 3/10 all the way up the Kemmel straight. Dude's an interesting personality, but I think he's only good enough for a midfield team.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

. Dude's an interesting personality, but I think he's only good enough for a midfield team.

Which is exactly what the simulator showed and why he was never promoted up to RB in the first place. They knew beforehand he wasn't going to run with Max. That Perez was better, that Liam was out performing him in sim training.

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