Formula 1 Talk

[RWhiz]

But how many teams have had two Max’s, or two Lewis, etc, etc. The only ones that I can think of was Nico and Lewis a few years ago, and Lewis and Alonso even further back. I’m sure there are a few other examples, but they aren’t common is my point.

I think Lewis was far better than they thought when pairing him with Alonzo, it didn’t end well.
The big one was pairing Senna and Prost on the same team, and we see how that ended!
It’s going to be interesting how Norris and Piastri play out.

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[Dannyvandelft]

I think Lewis was far better than they thought when pairing him with Alonzo, it didn’t end well.
The big one was pairing Senna and Prost on the same team, and we see how that ended!
It’s going to be interesting how Norris and Piastri play out.

Alonso vs Lewis was a huge clusterf#ck. Ron Dennis the team principal at the time, wanted Lewis to win the title in his rookie year, so he ordered everyone to fully support Lewis, and not Alonso. To the point where they deliberately tried to slow Alonso down by over fueling his car etc. It was awful to watch. Alonso with a bit of team support would've easily gotten the title, but had his own team literally sabotaging him to get Lewis to the front, and by doing so handed the title to Kimi.
I wish I was around to see Senna V Prost live, that was before my time.
When Oscar gets up to speed next season, Norris is going to have a HUGE problem. Oscar is potentially the one to take the fight to Max, not Norris.

 

[Zoomie]

Well at least LH isn't getting that sort of preferential treatment now. I mean can you imagine if he ran George off the track, or got better track position based on team orders? Not in this day and age, I assure you.

 

[Denton]

Well at least LH isn't getting that sort of preferential treatment now. I mean can you imagine if he ran George off the track, or got better track position based on team orders? Not in this day and age, I assure you.

They would've lost more constructors points if they didn't switch; Sainz would've taken Hamilton (as he was stuck behind George) and then he would've smoked George like a kipper.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

They would've lost more constructors points if they didn't switch; Sainz would've taken Hamilton (as he was stuck behind George) and then he would've smoked George like a kipper.

But where was the order for Hamilton to let Russell by when he was faster on fresher tires? ?

 

[FLtrackdays]

Well at least LH isn't getting that sort of preferential treatment now. I mean can you imagine if he ran George off the track, or got better track position based on team orders? Not in this day and age, I assure you.

He did get that special one of a kind racing helmet. It was really cool looking, gotta admit. And during the interview (about the helmet) they mentioned Silverstone now has a straight named after him. Not saying he doesn’t deserve it. But I do believe there is still some preferential treatment.

I feel like most drivers have a much harder time getting around Lewis or Alonzo when they are in front and they don’t want you to get by. Those guys have much better car control than the rest. You can see it pretty easily. Max ofc is on a whole other level. I don’t see his skill getting any worse anytime soon. Unless he (or someone) mentally breaks him.

When Oscar gets up to speed next season, Norris is going to have a HUGE problem. Oscar is potentially the one to take the fight to Max, not Norris.

And fully agree Danny. Oscar Piastri is on the right track. What a dynamic team McLaren has now. Lando is fantastic as well. RB has to be sweating about that duo in the years to come. Would is be possible for RB to use one of their unlimited salary caps and secure one of those guys? They seem much calmer under presser than say a George Russel.

Checo I’ll say it again, what happened to him that last race?!?! Was he drugged? Do they have any explanation as to why he couldn’t drive the car and kept smashing into people?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Checo ran out of talent. He's desperate for a good result and he's imploding.

 

[Denton]

But where was the order for Hamilton to let Russell by when he was faster on fresher tires? ?

I'd have to rewatch (lol) the race for any specifics outside of the last 10-20 laps - it was late and I'm getting older...

It just feels like Lewis is usually faster in race pace than George and George only ever ends up slowing them down. Not sure I'm a big fan of the strategies used by George and his team either - they seem to go for the loooooong shots sometimes.

Also, I didn't realize that 2/3/4 were so close in the points there - so sure, I can see why they would prioritze Lewis at this stage in the game to try to get Lewis into the #2 spot, not sure why they didn't immediately order the switch in Singapore tbh.

 

[Awales74]

He's desperate for a good result and he's imploding.

True. It's hard to watch. You see this in baseball all the time. A young guy devotes his life to a sport only to find out he's C+ at best. Double down on effort and results only gets worse. Quadruple A is a sad fate.

 

[Awales74]

I'm a Drive to Survive F1 fan, can someone with a little longer history with the sport explain Team Orders to me? Like why is it such a big deal???

Young guy gets a contract, a contract, with a team, with financial responsibilities, has a need for them to drive in a certain way, why can't the drivers man up and drive that way. If I owned the car and I want you to box and retire the car on lap one because I want to go home early then why would the driver have such a time with it? They drive for the championship sure, but it's my multi-million dollar car and team and tires and wheels and paddock and all of that.

They don't like the order then quit. Don't want to quit mid season then quit at the end of the season. But in the end of the day, the ride is a privilege. I don't understand the angst.

If I was Mercedes or Ferrari or any of these teams with closely matched drivers, I'd have an algorithm that decided the primary driver. And the primary driver gets all the 50/50s. Two cars running 1 and 2 -- switch so the primary driver wins. Two cars running 3 and 4 -- switch so the primary driver gets the podium. Two cars chasing down a car -- switch to the primary driver. Always. No doubt. Review the standing before each race so everyone understands the score. And then done. On track, need to make team order. Then follow the team order and be done. Don't want to be the secondary driver then do better at practice, in simulator, in the championship points, in whatever category.

But again, I'm just naïve Drive to Survive American viewer. Someone explain me the angst regarding a team acting like a team?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I'm a Drive to Survive F1 fan, can someone with a little longer history with the sport explain Team Orders to me? Like why is it such a big deal???

Young guy gets a contract, a contract, with a team, with financial responsibilities, has a need for them to drive in a certain way, why can't the drivers man up and drive that way. If I owned the car and I want you to box and retire the car on lap one because I want to go home early then why would the driver have such a time with it? They drive for the championship sure, but it's my multi-million dollar car and team and tires and wheels and paddock and all of that.

They don't like the order then quit. Don't want to quit mid season then quit at the end of the season. But in the end of the day, the ride is a privilege. I don't understand the angst.

If I was Mercedes or Ferrari or any of these teams with closely matched drivers, I'd have an algorithm that decided the primary driver. And the primary driver gets all the 50/50s. Two cars running 1 and 2 -- switch so the primary driver wins. Two cars running 3 and 4 -- switch so the primary driver gets the podium. Two cars chasing down a car -- switch to the primary driver. Always. No doubt. Review the standing before each race so everyone understands the score. And then done. On track, need to make team order. Then follow the team order and be done. Don't want to be the secondary driver then do better at practice, in simulator, in the championship points, in whatever category.

But again, I'm just naïve Drive to Survive American viewer. Someone explain me the angst regarding a team acting like a team?

The first driver any driver wants to beat is their teammate. They drive the same car, so that's the standard you're measured against. You beat your teammate, your stock rises, and top teams come calling. And vice versa.
Team orders are usually frowned upon, until they're necessary like protecting a position in the standings. Or a teammate is coming up behind but with fresher tires, so instead of fighting with each other, holding each other up, they'll say "let him by" and so on.
Drivers start having problems with it, when they make no sense, like last race, Gasly was ordered to let Ocon by on the last lap. Made no difference for the team, because they occupied the same two positions giving the same points. But to the driver standings it obviously does matter.
There's no 1st or 2nd driver in a team, usually until one is way ahead in points like Max over Checo or contractually negotiated like Hamilton and Russell. It's different per team.
But the team comes first, then the driver.

 

[Denton]

The first driver any driver wants to beat is their teammate. They drive the same car, so that's the standard you're measured against. You beat your teammate, your stock rises, and top teams come calling. And vice versa.
Team orders are usually frowned upon, until they're necessary like protecting a position in the standings. Or a teammate is coming up behind but with fresher tires, so instead of fighting with each other, holding each other up, they'll say "let him by" and so on.
Drivers start having problems with it, when they make no sense, like last race, Gasly was ordered to let Ocon by on the last lap. Made no difference for the team, because they occupied the same two positions giving the same points. But to the driver standings it obviously does matter.
There's no 1st or 2nd driver in a team, usually until one is way ahead in points like Max over Checo or contractually negotiated like Hamilton and Russell. It's different per team.
But the team comes first, then the driver.

And don't forget the most important thing! Choosing who gets the yellow nubbin' for the T-Cam!!!!!!

 

[FuzzyRev]

https://jalopnik.com/f1-fans-bombard-mercedes-with-orders-for-cans-of-red-bu-1850873406

Haha

 

[Dannyvandelft]

And don't forget the most important thing! Choosing who gets the yellow nubbin' for the T-Cam!!!!!!

Very true I forgot that ?

 

[Zoomie]

The problem purists have with team orders is that F1 is a competitive sport, and team orders go against the spirit of competition.

The drivers want to race. Alpha Tauri, McLaren, and Mercedes all had drivers competing with each other at some point in that race. All three were told what to do - for the benefit of the team - rather than being allowed to race for position.

From a team perspective, that's much better than having both drivers crash out in the same incident. Notice how often the team cars are 1/2, or 3/4, etc. Being in the same car, your closest match is your teammate - so it's inevitable that you'd be competing with them the most. Teams want constructor points so that individual competition takes a back seat.

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