Denton
Well-Known Member
That's why.
Sponsored
Sponsored
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
What a season. You might never see anything like this in your lifetime again. The most dominant display by a driver, EVER. 70 year old records broken from a time where differences were measured in minutes, not thousandths of seconds. Absolutely incredible.
gixxersixxerman
Well-Known Member
I give the over all season a “B”. Racing was much better in the midfield, well 2nd place back. Aston was up there, McLaren was up there. Came down to the mast race for 2nd in the constructors championship. 4th-6th in the drivers was decided in the last race. Besides a few races that were snore fests most races I enjoyed.
Favorite race of the year was Vegas for me.
Gotta give RedBull a A++++ for the year. Same with Max, last year he was just about able to throw his hat in for one of the greatest drivers of all time, this year he easily proved it. As anyone on here knows I don’t care for him or RedBull I gotta watch history be made that will most likely never happen again.
Mercedes C+ they lucked into 2nd. Honestly Ferrari gave them 2nd once again their strategist are just horrible. Russell got them their 2nd place for this race, but was easily shown up by Hamilton all year. W15 I hope is something special, I loved watching them dominate for years so I can’t complain when RB does now.
Ferrari… B- they had a good car, they have good drivers, one of the strongest line ups out there. Yet shoot themselves in the foot every race.
McLaren B+ Once they got their car sorted they were there. Lando is sooooooo close to that first win, I feel sorry for the kid. And Piastri what a rookie season
Aston C what a story, easily the 2nd best car at the start of the year and idk wtf happened to them. That old dog still has fight in him. I really ate crow this year because I have been saying for years Alonso is such an overrated driver, he proved me wrong for sure. So glad he got away from Ocon and Alpine, and what he was able to do with that car, I really wish Seb could’ve subbed for Stroll and get a taste of what he help developed. Stroll had some great drives towards the end of the year.
Alpine D, I can’t stand Ocon so much, he has got to go down as one of the shittiest teammates in the history of F1. Sorry for Gasly
Williams B- they did a lot with a car that wasn’t great. Albon really pushed that car and held its own in speed traps. Logan… idk, I’d rather see Lawson there.
Alpha Tauri C Yakima drove great today, but still got beat by teammates that 1 hasn’t been in a F1 car, other guy wasn’t in a F1 car besides a test in what 8 months. He did beat each of them also. Still I think Dani and Lawson would’ve been a stronger team.
Alfa D… crappy car, decent drivers.
HAAS F how does your evolution just keep getting worse. They old spec car Hulk was driving was way better then what KMag was driving. Garbage..
Anyway, that was my take on this season. Love to hear y’all’s overall feeling.
Favorite race of the year was Vegas for me.
Gotta give RedBull a A++++ for the year. Same with Max, last year he was just about able to throw his hat in for one of the greatest drivers of all time, this year he easily proved it. As anyone on here knows I don’t care for him or RedBull I gotta watch history be made that will most likely never happen again.
Mercedes C+ they lucked into 2nd. Honestly Ferrari gave them 2nd once again their strategist are just horrible. Russell got them their 2nd place for this race, but was easily shown up by Hamilton all year. W15 I hope is something special, I loved watching them dominate for years so I can’t complain when RB does now.
Ferrari… B- they had a good car, they have good drivers, one of the strongest line ups out there. Yet shoot themselves in the foot every race.
McLaren B+ Once they got their car sorted they were there. Lando is sooooooo close to that first win, I feel sorry for the kid. And Piastri what a rookie season
Aston C what a story, easily the 2nd best car at the start of the year and idk wtf happened to them. That old dog still has fight in him. I really ate crow this year because I have been saying for years Alonso is such an overrated driver, he proved me wrong for sure. So glad he got away from Ocon and Alpine, and what he was able to do with that car, I really wish Seb could’ve subbed for Stroll and get a taste of what he help developed. Stroll had some great drives towards the end of the year.
Alpine D, I can’t stand Ocon so much, he has got to go down as one of the shittiest teammates in the history of F1. Sorry for Gasly
Williams B- they did a lot with a car that wasn’t great. Albon really pushed that car and held its own in speed traps. Logan… idk, I’d rather see Lawson there.
Alpha Tauri C Yakima drove great today, but still got beat by teammates that 1 hasn’t been in a F1 car, other guy wasn’t in a F1 car besides a test in what 8 months. He did beat each of them also. Still I think Dani and Lawson would’ve been a stronger team.
Alfa D… crappy car, decent drivers.
HAAS F how does your evolution just keep getting worse. They old spec car Hulk was driving was way better then what KMag was driving. Garbage..
Anyway, that was my take on this season. Love to hear y’all’s overall feeling.
FLtrackdays
Well-Known Member
Damn Thomas! What a great take on the season?I definitely couldn’t have said that better.
My fav comical side show yesterday:
Toto over radio during the race (desperation in his voice): “You’ve got the fastest Pace Lewis” & “You’re in the fastest car!”
Lewis after the race:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ch-worse-with-red.38AgkuatDbJ5Azvz4sueJH.html
Oddly enough I think the drivers finished about right. The point system works very well. My kids will likely talk about Max & this year someday despite never watching the sport. This will and should go down as the most amazing spectacle in racing ever. To take the world best automotive engineers, principals, drivers and wind up soooooooo far ahead, makes no sense whatsoever. Max said himself he doubts this can ever again be reproduced.
Checo gets a huge boost from being allowed to saddle that wild RB ? . When he can tame it, he’s looks amazing. You almost feel bad for the rest of the field. It was interesting during the season how other drivers would refer to Max or The Red Bull as not something to chase. No matter how many times the interviewer would ask the question. Loved the spot on honesty from the drivers at this anomaly.
As far as the rest of the pack, Ferrari got robbed this last race on a Checo call. But…. they shouldn’t have put themselves in this position to begin with many races prior. The fact they came back so strong at the end was fantastic! Can Ferrari promote Charles to strategist in 2024? ? Also, with Charles and Alonzo both having 206 points, are they both 4th in the drivers championships?
McLaren - everyone has to be worried about that combo, Norris and Piastri. Can’t say enough about them this year, other than their promise is off the charts.
Mercedes - what a tough position to be in. Winning that long and finally coming down. Every mistake is under a microscope. They said they tore down the car the night before the race for Lewis - to try and figure out what was wrong. Frustration is on the face of Mercedes sadly.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I think Checo earned his stay at Red Bull. However, back to the elephant ? in the room. Lewis has made it clear he is NOT happy with Mercedes (at this point in his career). Who can blame him? You know he’s thinking he can do way better behind the wheel of that Red Bull ? . Maybe even split those wins with Max. And why not? He amassed such an amazing record and is clearly better than everyone else. You can almost read his mind when he stares at those Red Bull cars many pre & post races. Add that he is 38 years old. Should he wait for the questions to arise that maybe he’s too old or lost his touch? I think all those questions came to a head at the end. Should he continue to drive for a lesser team after such a legacy career? Max appeared shocked with that question as well but finally composed himself and said he could drive with whoever. I’m sure he wouldn’t be fond of the idea. But ultimately even he trusts Christian’s decisions. Such great team dynamics at Red Bull.
How will Christian manage 2024 with such a full plate, high bar to follow & target on his back?
I can’t wait to find out! ?
My fav comical side show yesterday:
Toto over radio during the race (desperation in his voice): “You’ve got the fastest Pace Lewis” & “You’re in the fastest car!”
Lewis after the race:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ch-worse-with-red.38AgkuatDbJ5Azvz4sueJH.html
Oddly enough I think the drivers finished about right. The point system works very well. My kids will likely talk about Max & this year someday despite never watching the sport. This will and should go down as the most amazing spectacle in racing ever. To take the world best automotive engineers, principals, drivers and wind up soooooooo far ahead, makes no sense whatsoever. Max said himself he doubts this can ever again be reproduced.
Checo gets a huge boost from being allowed to saddle that wild RB ? . When he can tame it, he’s looks amazing. You almost feel bad for the rest of the field. It was interesting during the season how other drivers would refer to Max or The Red Bull as not something to chase. No matter how many times the interviewer would ask the question. Loved the spot on honesty from the drivers at this anomaly.
As far as the rest of the pack, Ferrari got robbed this last race on a Checo call. But…. they shouldn’t have put themselves in this position to begin with many races prior. The fact they came back so strong at the end was fantastic! Can Ferrari promote Charles to strategist in 2024? ? Also, with Charles and Alonzo both having 206 points, are they both 4th in the drivers championships?
McLaren - everyone has to be worried about that combo, Norris and Piastri. Can’t say enough about them this year, other than their promise is off the charts.
Mercedes - what a tough position to be in. Winning that long and finally coming down. Every mistake is under a microscope. They said they tore down the car the night before the race for Lewis - to try and figure out what was wrong. Frustration is on the face of Mercedes sadly.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
I think Checo earned his stay at Red Bull. However, back to the elephant ? in the room. Lewis has made it clear he is NOT happy with Mercedes (at this point in his career). Who can blame him? You know he’s thinking he can do way better behind the wheel of that Red Bull ? . Maybe even split those wins with Max. And why not? He amassed such an amazing record and is clearly better than everyone else. You can almost read his mind when he stares at those Red Bull cars many pre & post races. Add that he is 38 years old. Should he wait for the questions to arise that maybe he’s too old or lost his touch? I think all those questions came to a head at the end. Should he continue to drive for a lesser team after such a legacy career? Max appeared shocked with that question as well but finally composed himself and said he could drive with whoever. I’m sure he wouldn’t be fond of the idea. But ultimately even he trusts Christian’s decisions. Such great team dynamics at Red Bull.
How will Christian manage 2024 with such a full plate, high bar to follow & target on his back?
I can’t wait to find out! ?
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
RedBull wouldn't want Lewis because their happy family team spirit would be broken immediately. Think Prost & Senna at McLaren, Rosberg & Hamilton at Mercedes. You can't have 2 Captains on a ship, 2 Chef's in a kitchen, etc.
Any team Lewis would go to, he'd expect #1 status and preferential treatment, as would Max. Put them together in a team, and it would be chaos.
On top of that, RedBull doesn't need Lewis. They have the best car, the best team, the best strategy, the best team principal, and the best driver. Even with just Max driving, he'd have won both titles easily. Max could've stopped driving in August, and he'd still have won the title.
Lewis would beyond any doubt put up more of a fight than Checo, but I can't see him beating Max over a season. Max is at a level now that I have never seen. The closest I can remember is Schumacher winning his title in June or something (2002?) and stepping on the podium every single race.
For me, GOAT status is between them. Senna was incredible, but Schumacher was already starting to beat him before his accident.
The "it's the car" argument doesn't fly for me with the RB19.
Here's why.
When Mercedes dominated, it didn't matter who sat in the other car. They were immediately fast and almost always P1 or P2. Rosberg, Bottas (who's nothing better than Perez) and Russell almost won when he filled in for Lewis.
Perez struggled with the car after Miami. It was a handful for him and his results reflected that.
Max had his struggles with the car too, but just managed to set it up better, or learned to drive the car to extract it's potential.
The RB19 just seemed much more of a handful than the W11 of Mercedes.
Lewis is absolutely right to look for a possible seat in the best car on the grid, and he has every reason to do that. But RedBull has every reason to not want to give him that seat. They have the perfect team right now.
Any team Lewis would go to, he'd expect #1 status and preferential treatment, as would Max. Put them together in a team, and it would be chaos.
On top of that, RedBull doesn't need Lewis. They have the best car, the best team, the best strategy, the best team principal, and the best driver. Even with just Max driving, he'd have won both titles easily. Max could've stopped driving in August, and he'd still have won the title.
Lewis would beyond any doubt put up more of a fight than Checo, but I can't see him beating Max over a season. Max is at a level now that I have never seen. The closest I can remember is Schumacher winning his title in June or something (2002?) and stepping on the podium every single race.
For me, GOAT status is between them. Senna was incredible, but Schumacher was already starting to beat him before his accident.
The "it's the car" argument doesn't fly for me with the RB19.
Here's why.
When Mercedes dominated, it didn't matter who sat in the other car. They were immediately fast and almost always P1 or P2. Rosberg, Bottas (who's nothing better than Perez) and Russell almost won when he filled in for Lewis.
Perez struggled with the car after Miami. It was a handful for him and his results reflected that.
Max had his struggles with the car too, but just managed to set it up better, or learned to drive the car to extract it's potential.
The RB19 just seemed much more of a handful than the W11 of Mercedes.
Lewis is absolutely right to look for a possible seat in the best car on the grid, and he has every reason to do that. But RedBull has every reason to not want to give him that seat. They have the perfect team right now.
johnnyskids
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Johnny
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2023
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 370
- Reaction score
- 434
- Location
- New Brunswick Canada
- Car(s)
- Civic Si (sold) Acura Integra Type S
That last race kind of went as I predicted, that is McLaren sealing their 4th place standing and Ferrari shooting themselves in their foot and losing out on 2nd place. This time it was putting all their chips on a late safety car to pit Carlos into and keep him further up the standings. They would have been much better off pitting him earlier allowing him to actually try to drive his way back through the pack for some points.
The race itself was pretty pedestrian overall, not saying it was the worst race by any means, just not the most exciting.
Can we all agree that another year of RB/Max winning virtually everything next season is not what we are hoping for. I'm okay with them doing very well, heck even winning both championships would be fine, just for the love of GOD can we have more teams winning races and could see Max actually racing wheel to wheel more than a couple of laps every race. The best races of the season were the ones where RB was actually challenged and there was actually a race at the front, so that's to say there weren't that many good races in that sense.
Lastly, Lewis going to RB, was never going to happen and Lewis even confirmed he wasn't the one who reached out and I'm sure the "talks" were very brief indeed. I do expect RB to be in the market for a new driver after next season and I could see them going very hard at Lando and Charles.
The race itself was pretty pedestrian overall, not saying it was the worst race by any means, just not the most exciting.
Can we all agree that another year of RB/Max winning virtually everything next season is not what we are hoping for. I'm okay with them doing very well, heck even winning both championships would be fine, just for the love of GOD can we have more teams winning races and could see Max actually racing wheel to wheel more than a couple of laps every race. The best races of the season were the ones where RB was actually challenged and there was actually a race at the front, so that's to say there weren't that many good races in that sense.
Lastly, Lewis going to RB, was never going to happen and Lewis even confirmed he wasn't the one who reached out and I'm sure the "talks" were very brief indeed. I do expect RB to be in the market for a new driver after next season and I could see them going very hard at Lando and Charles.
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
Think I have to go with Zandvoort. Changing conditions, loads of pit stops, was an excellent race.
gixxersixxerman
Well-Known Member
That was a fantastic race also. This year had much better racing. At first i thought after a year it would be stretched out again, but was pleasantly surprised.
johnnyskids
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Johnny
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2023
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 370
- Reaction score
- 434
- Location
- New Brunswick Canada
- Car(s)
- Civic Si (sold) Acura Integra Type S
…much better racing if you ignore RB and Max in particular. But when there was only around 3 times when first place contested in the last 1/3 of the races, it takes away a lot of enjoyment to the other 9 teams fans.
gixxersixxerman
Well-Known Member
im for sure talking about the rest of the grid. Same though when Lewis was dominating I was loving it while many said it was boring. But won’t be hypocritical. I don’t like Max, I don’t like RB but it’s everyone else’s job to catch them just like RB did to Mercedes. I really hope they don’t change the rules just because of them dominating.
by the way, fees for the manufacturers based on points.. RB… ouch
- Red Bull - $7,445,817
- Mercedes - $3,347,012
- Ferrari - $3,327,287
- McLaren - $2,643,747
- Aston Martin - $2,498,837
- Alpine - $1,446,837
- Williams - $841,937
- AlphaTauri - $822,212
- Alfa Romeo - $763,037
- Haas - $736,737
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
Their 150 million or so in prize money will cover that lol.
FLtrackdays
Well-Known Member
I’m hoping you’re right and they don’t go gunning for RB, rule wise. But like most sports, they probably will screw with it. Crossing my fingers F1 will be different in that regard. Let the chips fall and teams improvise/evolve to greatness. Let’s see if Max and RB can do it again. And how others respond keeping it the same.
johnnyskids
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Johnny
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2023
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 370
- Reaction score
- 434
- Location
- New Brunswick Canada
- Car(s)
- Civic Si (sold) Acura Integra Type S
With the season over and the countdown to the next season happening now, to fill your time I recommend watching the Brawn series on Disney+ that was done by Keanu Reeves. It's a great little bit of history and it gets some really good behind the scenes of what was going on back in that era.
Typically the drive to survive Netflix special doesn't drop until about the week or two before the next season, so that too is quite a bit of a wait.
I definitely don't want the rules to be changed simply to target RB (even though that's something that has happened in the past). I'm hopeful that next season will be a bit more competitive at the front, I still think that RB and Max are huge favorites for the next couple of years, but fingers crossed it's not just a repeat of this year.
Typically the drive to survive Netflix special doesn't drop until about the week or two before the next season, so that too is quite a bit of a wait.
I definitely don't want the rules to be changed simply to target RB (even though that's something that has happened in the past). I'm hopeful that next season will be a bit more competitive at the front, I still think that RB and Max are huge favorites for the next couple of years, but fingers crossed it's not just a repeat of this year.
Burgerman
Well-Known Member
F1 has a history of changing rules, and banning innovation when they see something that gives one team an unfair or competitive advantage over other teams or a clever exploit of a gap in the rules.
They can’t ban Max or sack Adrian Newey so as long as they both continue their brilliant ways, the only thing that will stop them is their own success due to the new Concorde Agreement. Oh and Adrain actually retiring like he keeps saying.
Remember DAS, the F-duct, blown diffusers, double diffusers? How about electronic aids like ABS, launch control, active suspension? Or my favorite-chilling the fuel! Aah the good old days when innovation was fun!
They can’t ban Max or sack Adrian Newey so as long as they both continue their brilliant ways, the only thing that will stop them is their own success due to the new Concorde Agreement. Oh and Adrain actually retiring like he keeps saying.
Remember DAS, the F-duct, blown diffusers, double diffusers? How about electronic aids like ABS, launch control, active suspension? Or my favorite-chilling the fuel! Aah the good old days when innovation was fun!
Dannyvandelft
Well-Known Member
The difference is that those things are trinkets on a car. Newey (and his team) designed an overall fast, but difficult to drive, car. There's nothing to ban.
Sponsored
