2020 3.0 Premium - bracket to mount original front calipers to the rear brakes?

[Rev46]

Is there a bracket that will allow me to mount the OEM front brake calipers to replace the single piston floating rear calipers? Not a fan of caliper flex from floating calipers.

Front has a BBK so OEM front calipers are spare.

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[lucky phil]

Is there a bracket that will allow me to mount the OEM front brake calipers to replace the single piston floating rear calipers? Not a fan of caliper flex from floating calipers.

Front has a BBK so OEM front calipers are spare.

Or the E brake by the sounds of it. What option will you use for that?
Phil

 

[Rev46]

Or the E brake by the sounds of it. What option will you use for that?
Phil

Valid question. Can relocate it similar to the AP Racing rear BBK maybe?
Would be an interesting project if a little impractical.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blo...-rear-brake-kit-with-electronic-parking-brake

 

[lucky phil]

Valid question. Can relocate it similar to the AP Racing rear BBK maybe?
Would be an interesting project if a little impractical.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blo...-rear-brake-kit-with-electronic-parking-brake

So you eliminate the brake calliper flex by adding more sprung weight. I can't imagine the stock rear callipers are that bad on a road car to make it worth the money and effort.
Phil

 

[Rev46]

So you eliminate the brake calliper flex by adding more sprung weight. I can't imagine the stock rear callipers are that bad on a road car to make it worth the money and effort.
Phil

This is for a track car, would have some advantages of better heat management, less pad taper, easier pad swaps, better pedal feel, and different pad options. I’ve spent the past five years tracking a car with single piston calipers and it hasn’t been ideal.

I would rather use existing calipers rather than buying a rear big brake kit. Forged wheels are more than enough to offset the mass.

 

[lucky phil]

This is for a track car, would have some advantages of better heat management, less pad taper, easier pad swaps, better pedal feel, and different pad options. I’ve spent the past five years tracking a car with single piston calipers and it hasn’t been ideal.

I would rather use existing calipers rather than buying a rear big brake kit. Forged wheels are more than enough to offset the mass.

Do you need an E brake for a track car? Can't see why you would unless it's a tech requirement.
Phil

 

[EricB]

Have you thought about if this would create a brake bias issue?

 

[Rev46]

Do you need an E brake for a track car? Can't see why you would unless it's a tech requirement.
Phil

It’s not critical but I’d like to retain it just in case.

 

[Rev46]

Have you thought about if this would create a brake bias issue?

I haven’t calculated the piston area and force yet, moreso looking for someone who may have done this already and can advise.

 

[FLtrackdays]

This is for a track car, would have some advantages of better heat management, less pad taper, easier pad swaps, better pedal feel, and different pad options. I’ve spent the past five years tracking a car with single piston calipers and it hasn’t been ideal.

I would rather use existing calipers rather than buying a rear big brake kit. Forged wheels are more than enough to offset the mass.

I haven’t calculated the piston area and force yet, moreso looking for someone who may have done this already and can advise.

Glad you brought this up. There are so many things we could do to the car for track. Some things make more sense than others - bang for the buckwise.

Just curious what you‘ve noticed or are finding troublesome with the rear brake bias. Assuming you have the 3.0 Premium calipers. I have Hawk DTC 30s on the rear and use new rotors each time with each set of pads. With the nannies turned off, they last way longer than my front pads & rotors. The bite and stability feels great/linear. I haven’t noticed uneven pad wear (in the rear). But fixed is definitely better on paper for sure and why we have them on our fronts.

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakepedia/general/brake-bias-and-performance

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakepedia/bbk/rear-brake-upgrades

You probably know all of this ? stuff and more. I’d be interested, especially at such a high $5k price point if this can be done w/out altering the brake bias. And how would it affect our ABS system compatibility wise? Lastly, pad & rotor cost would likely go up as well. Have you taken this into consideration? I love learning and curious what you’ve found out!

https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racin...on-brake-kit-rear-cp9450365mm-toyota-gr-supra

 

[Rev46]

Glad you brought this up. There are so many things we could do to the car for track. Some things make more sense than others - bang for the buckwise.

Just curious what you‘ve noticed or are finding troublesome with the rear brake bias. Assuming you have the 3.0 Premium calipers. I have Hawk DTC 30s on the rear and use new rotors each time with each set of pads. With the nannies turned off, they last way longer than my front pads & rotors. The bite and stability feels great/linear. I haven’t noticed uneven pad wear (in the rear). But fixed is definitely better on paper for sure and why we have them on our fronts.

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakepedia/general/brake-bias-and-performance

https://www.brakes-shop.com/brakepedia/bbk/rear-brake-upgrades

You probably know all of this ? stuff and more. I’d be interested, especially at such a high $5k price point if this can be done w/out altering the brake bias. And how would it affect our ABS system compatibility wise? Lastly, pad & rotor cost would likely go up as well. Have you taken this into consideration? I love learning and curious what you’ve found out!

https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racin...on-brake-kit-rear-cp9450365mm-toyota-gr-supra

Rough estimate is it shifts the brake bias rearward by about 10% so it would need a significantly lower friction rear compound or brake bias proportioning valve. And then you might have issues with ABS. Pad and rotor cost would go up but no different than an existing BBK system. Would be much easier to swap pads as well. But all in all just not worth it for a likely nearly imperceptible improvement in pedal feel. Seems like the calipers don't have a lot of flex anyhow.

This is all a thought experiment or seeing if a solution already exists that would let me repurpose my spare calipers. I just bought this car and my first trackday in it is coming up and from my understanding the biggest issue with the brakes on this car are from the master cylinder flex anyway for which this car has the brace already. I think the biggest detractor would be adding a significant amount of unsprung mass compared to losing mass with the AP racing kit. When it's time to work on the brakes I'll take measurements and do a more thorough calculation just to see.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Rough estimate is it shifts the brake bias rearward by about 10% so it would need a significantly lower friction rear compound or brake bias proportioning valve. And then you might have issues with ABS. Pad and rotor cost would go up but no different than an existing BBK system. Would be much easier to swap pads as well. But all in all just not worth it for a likely nearly imperceptible improvement in pedal feel. Seems like the calipers don't have a lot of flex anyhow.

This is all a thought experiment or seeing if a solution already exists that would let me repurpose my spare calipers. I just bought this car and my first trackday in it is coming up and from my understanding the biggest issue with the brakes on this car are from the master cylinder flex anyway for which this car has the brace already. I think the biggest detractor would be adding a significant amount of unsprung mass compared to losing mass with the AP racing kit. When it's time to work on the brakes I'll take measurements and do a more thorough calculation just to see.

Sounds like you’re on the right track & appreciate the feedback! What were you driving before?

I ended up getting front brake ducts, which took care of some uneven pad wear. Moved up on front pad compound to p mu999 (CSG is another I want to try). Which I can now pushed harder = faster lap times. The previous pads, when pushed too hard, forced me to trail braking harder. So with better front pads, more camber and some toe out up front, I’m no longer wearing my outer front tires as much. Again, I’ve got plenty of bite in the rear. I think you’ll find if you get too much brake bias in the rear, trail braking and rotating her will be a bitch. If you have rear sway bars & want even more rotation, you can always tighten that up and see how you like it. This car has lots of wiggle room, setup wise.

Unless you’re running more power, I think you’ll be quite surprised how well she does with basic track mods. I’m still at stock HP, besides a catless downpipe, and have “affordable” Ohlins coilovers, SRF brake fluid, steel brake lines and 100-200tw tires. Even without a seat, I’ve got room to get my times down further. Eventually, depending on the track temps, you’ll notice heat soak and may want to get an aftermarket manifold. But I can honestly say it’s not the rear brakes holding me back.

I’m mentioning all this only because I really don’t think you’ll find that to be the area to focus on, track bang for the buck. Do you have a build page or plan on competing with yours?

 

[razorlab]

Rough estimate is it shifts the brake bias rearward by about 10% so it would need a significantly lower friction rear compound or brake bias proportioning valve. And then you might have issues with ABS. Pad and rotor cost would go up but no different than an existing BBK system. Would be much easier to swap pads as well. But all in all just not worth it for a likely nearly imperceptible improvement in pedal feel. Seems like the calipers don't have a lot of flex anyhow.

This is all a thought experiment or seeing if a solution already exists that would let me repurpose my spare calipers. I just bought this car and my first trackday in it is coming up and from my understanding the biggest issue with the brakes on this car are from the master cylinder flex anyway for which this car has the brace already. I think the biggest detractor would be adding a significant amount of unsprung mass compared to losing mass with the AP racing kit. When it's time to work on the brakes I'll take measurements and do a more thorough calculation just to see.

Brake bias is dynamic on the Supra so that is not correct.

I suggest tracking the car first. The rear brakes aren't an issue.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I love it when Bryan summarizes (Razors) my long winded answer down to a simple two liner.

I definitely feel more like the female in the relationship

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