Formula 1 Talk

[RedMKV]

Was surprisingly entertaining

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[johnnyskids]

Wasn’t one of the best races of the year, but it wasnt the worst by far either. I thought it was a really good race. Lots of good racing through out the whole grid.

I agree, but my goodness Max got another horse shoe up his a$$. Had that last safety car not happened he wouldn't have won that race, I'm sure that he could not have made up that time with Charles ahead, on fresher tires. The safety car not only allowed him to get new tires, but it brought Charles back in front of him. I'm really tired of Max always having the luck and so many other drivers getting the shaft regularly.

Things that I hope the FIA learned after this race, try not to piss off the Vegas residents as much and for the love of God schedule this race a month earlier so that the temperatures aren't such an issue.

 

[Zoomie]

I have to say, Max clearly ran Charles off the road on turn 1 and should have been made to give the place back. His flippant response to the penalty and the fact it didn't affect the outcome felt unsatisfying. He basically gave the stewards the middle finger and carried on.

I guess at a certain point the penalty WAS 'fair' and the Redbull is just so far ahead of every other car that it didn't matter. Russel had a 5 second penalty and it dropped him what, 3 or 4 spots?

 

[johnnyskids]

I have to say, Max clearly ran Charles off the road on turn 1 and should have been made to give the place back. His flippant response to the penalty and the fact it didn't affect the outcome felt unsatisfying. He basically gave the stewards the middle finger and carried on.

I guess at a certain point the penalty WAS 'fair' and the Redbull is just so far ahead of every other car that it didn't matter. Russel had a 5 second penalty and it dropped him what, 3 or 4 spots?

The thing is, that rule has been kind of adhered to for this season, so I don't blame the FIA or Max for it. I do blame them for taking so god damn long to enforce it. You are telling me that the 3+ laps behind the safety car wasn't long enough to review that? He should have given that spot back on the restart, but they didn't. That being said, when he had to sit for 5 seconds in the pit that hurt him more and could have resulted in him not winning, but then the last safety car gifted him an unbeatable advantage, again not Max's fault, just really tired of everything going his way this entire season (obviously this is just how it feels and not reality as I'm sure people can find examples of when something didn't go his way).

 

[kaj]

The thing is, that rule has been kind of adhered to for this season, so I don't blame the FIA or Max for it. I do blame them for taking so god damn long to enforce it. You are telling me that the 3+ laps behind the safety car wasn't long enough to review that? He should have given that spot back on the restart, but they didn't. That being said, when he had to sit for 5 seconds in the pit that hurt him more and could have resulted in him not winning, but then the last safety car gifted him an unbeatable advantage, again not Max's fault, just really tired of everything going his way this entire season (obviously this is just how it feels and not reality as I'm sure people can find examples of when something didn't go his way).

People say it's all the car. I think a lot of people forget how much management comes into play. Planning and betting on outcomes is a learned skill.

Otherwise ...
I like that Max had a broken car, had a penalty, slowed for his co-driver, made a second pit stop, and still won by over two seconds.
I also like watching all the grumpy people complain about the penalty. "Five seconds is nothing for Max. He's so fast, the penalty should have been more." because penalties are on a sliding scale? ?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

I have to say, Max clearly ran Charles off the road on turn 1 and should have been made to give the place back.

It wasn't on purpose though. Cold tires, started on a really dirty side of the track which had an oil spill on it, so his tires had oil, gravel, were cold, on a slick track. That his start was as good as it was, was incredible in it's own right. You saw him understeering wide trying to stay on track. There was no bad intent there. Alonso spinning, Sainz almost spinning in the same spot reaffirmed it. It was just super slippery.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

, but it brought Charles back in front of him.

but then the last safety car gifted him an unbeatable advantage

Max was in 9th place at one point, Leclerc in 1st after the last Safety Car. How much more advantage does he need!? Charles had every opportunity to win that race. Him outbraking himself and locking up didn't help either.
Max had to drive with a broken front wing, because Russell was in Baku mode, and had to pass a bunch of cars to even get to Charles.

Nothing lucky about it.

 

[Zoomie]

He's so fast, the penalty should have been more." because penalties are on a sliding scale? ?

In a way, yes? It depends on how you want penalties to work. A two place grid drop affects Max more than someone like Bottas. A 5 second penalty affected George more than Max.

In this case the penalty didn't feel like enough because the circumstances of the race let Max get back within reach of the leaders. I think my problem is that teams are getting to choose the lesser of the two penalty options: giving back the place OR taking the 5 second penalty. Charles used a lot of tire wear and hurt his brakes and car cooling having to follow and overtake Max. Max might have lost more than 5 seconds if he'd given the place back.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

In a way, yes? It depends on how you want penalties to work. A two place grid drop affects Max more than someone like Bottas. A 5 second penalty affected George more than Max.

In this case the penalty didn't feel like enough because the circumstances of the race let Max get back within reach of the leaders. I think my problem is that teams are getting to choose the lesser of the two penalty options: giving back the place OR taking the 5 second penalty. Charles used a lot of tire wear and hurt his brakes and car cooling having to follow and overtake Max. Max might have lost more than 5 seconds if he'd given the place back.

Max lost more with the penalty. He was behind Charles, then had to serve 5 seconds at his stop. If he had given the place back, he wouldn't have had to serve a penalty at all. So he'd have been 5 seconds closer to Charles after his stop.

 

[FLtrackdays]

What a fantastic race ? - who woulda thunk it? I think no one…

Sure I didn’t like Max being all pissy in the beginning. Whatever. I really want to watch him driving. Not him on a reality show mixing with others (at least not yet, lol). His talent is what’s on showcase and it was fantastic as usual! I did like how they put him in an Elvis jumpsuit and threw him into it. Even got him to sing Viva Las Vegas over the radio ? - Clever marketing indeed

Poor Charles’s face in the Royals Royce when he found out both Max & Checo pit stopped during the virtual safety was priceless. I think he’s probably my fav if it was a personality contest. The way he drove was off the charts ? What a great drive/race for him and Max.

This race blew away all expectations after such a disappointing start (P1). Nobody likes change. I get it. But this was the best race all season, imo. The downside if you actually go to the race, I heard you can’t walk the track (street in this case) like you can at other venues. My wife is now thinking this will be our first race to attend, because she LOVES a Vegas vacation anyway. Myself, meh ? - but being in the USA with such a backdrop & tons of hotels to support the event… yeah, she’s usually right ?

 

[johnnyskids]

People say it's all the car. I think a lot of people forget how much management comes into play. Planning and betting on outcomes is a learned skill.

Otherwise ...
I like that Max had a broken car, had a penalty, slowed for his co-driver, made a second pit stop, and still won by over two seconds.
I also like watching all the grumpy people complain about the penalty. "Five seconds is nothing for Max. He's so fast, the penalty should have been more." because penalties are on a sliding scale? ?

By no means do I think it's just the car, or just the driver. People give so much credit to both, but the reality is it's a MASSIVE team sport. You need all the support and planning from the team to even get the cars to the race and in one piece. So many moving pieces and so many things that need to go right to win a race. So for RB and Max to do what they did this season, it truly is something special. Regardless of how poorly literally every other team has done this season compared to them.

I'm not a RB or Max fan, but I can certainly give credit where it's due. This was a masterclass of a season by both RB and Max (I'll give Checo some credit in there as well). But as a fan of F1 and racing, dominance is rather boring for everyone but the fans of said team or driver, so for me, this season has been especially boring.

 

[johnnyskids]

What a fantastic race ? - who woulda thunk it? I think no one…

Sure I didn’t like Max being all pissy in the beginning. Whatever. I really want to watch him driving. Not him on a reality show mixing with others (at least not yet, lol). His talent is what’s on showcase and it was fantastic as usual! I did like how they put him in an Elvis jumpsuit and threw him into it. Even got him to sing Viva Las Vegas over the radio ? - Clever marketing indeed

Poor Charles’s face in the Royals Royce when he found out both Max & Checo pit stopped during the virtual safety was priceless. I think he’s probably my fav if it was a personality contest. The way he drove was off the charts ? What a great drive/race for him and Max.

This race blew away all expectations after such a disappointing start (P1). Nobody likes change. I get it. But this was the best race all season, imo. The downside if you actually go to the race, I heard you can’t walk the track (street in this case) like you can at other venues. My wife is now thinking this will be our first race to attend, because she LOVES a Vegas vacation anyway. Myself, meh ? - but being in the USA with such a backdrop & tons of hotels to support the event… yeah, she’s usually right ?

Best race of the year? Not even in the top 8 for me. It could have been a bit better had they done this race earlier in the season, maybe before Mexico, and been warmer so that they weren't tiptoeing around so much. Of the US GP's, I'd probably rank this one 2nd out of 3, Miami being the worst and Texas being the best.

Charles being your favorite personality? That's a new take, not that he isn't likely, just that most would put someone like Danny Ric, Yuki, or Lando ahead in the personality department.

 

[kaj]

By no means do I think it's just the car, or just the driver. People give so much credit to both, but the reality is it's a MASSIVE team sport. You need all the support and planning from the team to even get the cars to the race and in one piece. So many moving pieces and so many things that need to go right to win a race. So for RB and Max to do what they did this season, it truly is something special. Regardless of how poorly literally every other team has done this season compared to them.

I'm not a RB or Max fan, but I can certainly give credit where it's due. This was a masterclass of a season by both RB and Max (I'll give Checo some credit in there as well). But as a fan of F1 and racing, dominance is rather boring for everyone but the fans of said team or driver, so for me, this season has been especially boring.

I like seeing the records broken. Do I want it to be this way next year? Noooo. I'm hoping he has to fight for it.

 

[johnnyskids]

In a way, yes? It depends on how you want penalties to work. A two place grid drop affects Max more than someone like Bottas. A 5 second penalty affected George more than Max.

In this case the penalty didn't feel like enough because the circumstances of the race let Max get back within reach of the leaders. I think my problem is that teams are getting to choose the lesser of the two penalty options: giving back the place OR taking the 5 second penalty. Charles used a lot of tire wear and hurt his brakes and car cooling having to follow and overtake Max. Max might have lost more than 5 seconds if he'd given the place back.

You realize the only reason it didn't "feel" harsh enough was due to the last safety car and allowing Max a cheap tire change before bunching everyone back up before the restart. Had that not happened, that 5 second penalty served in the first pit stop would likely have been the reason why Max didn't win.

 

[johnnyskids]

I like seeing the records broken. Do I want it to be this way next year? Noooo. I'm hoping he has to fight for it.

Meh, having them break records almost every race weekend to finish the second half of the season gets rather old, it'd also be so much more entertaining if it wasn't so clearly effortless for them (obviously this is just appearance and not reality as a crazy amount of work is done every race to win).

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