TripleSeven canards

[garudathree]

Spent 2 track days testing the triple seven canards, here are the results.

https://tripleseven-na.com/collections/non-replacment-items/products/mkv-supra-carbon-fiber-canards

Performance:

• Track testing:

First test with just the canards and no rear downforce adjustments gave the car a heavy front biased center of pressure. To balance the front downforce, I needed to install a makeshift rear diffuser from a GT350R. First track session still indicated too much front DF, and I needed to increase my rear wing by another 3 AOA. Total downforce increase is expected to be in the 100-120 lb at 100 mph range (inclusive of all rear adjustments, estimated from my wing manufacturer's CFD tables), given the performance increase:
1 second faster at LRP, and increasing vMin in the downhill by 7mph per the Garmin.

This 56.03 should (based on lapmeta and Garmin Catatlyst leaderboards) put the vehicle as the:
2nd fastest laptime at LRP, for something with stock power + street legal tires (1rst is a 991.2 GT3 RS running factory 80 TW Dunlops)
1rst fastest laptime with stock power + 200TW tires.

The same setup also landed 2nd fastest overall, and 1rst in class at an EMRA time attack 24 hours after this test. 1rst overall was a gridlife trackmod build.

• Pressure Testing:

Pressure testing at 70 mph revealed a substantial difference of 80-110 pascals between the upper wheel well areas with and without canards installed, suggesting a significant increase in downforce potential. For context, Sayber's fender vents yielded a 40-50 pascal difference.

DIY single element canard adapted from GTAmerica GT3 Cup introduced a 50-60 pascal difference.


I expected to rebalance rear df by 60-80 lbs (increase) vs no canards.

• Flow Visualization Testing:
  No detachment on the low pressure side for both the upper and lower canards, flowvis patterns indicates high surface velocity vs high pressure side.

I'm a fan of their product designs, am currently running their GT4 hood vent as well, and will likely swap to their front splitter from my heavily modified Verus setup once it's released.

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[RaceReX]

So, no actual measurement of downforce generated by these?

No ride height sensors to measure ride height at various speeds?

personally (and I’ve been wrong many times before), I’d be skeptical of any serious downforce generation by canards, no matter how well designed, that are mounted with a 3M mounting tape that is in a high leverage area and less than an inch of thickness in the mounting surface Contact area.

 

[garudathree]

You're seriously misunderstanding the fundamentals of how canards generate downforce.

While there are some direct downforce from the pressure differential between the upper and lower surfaces, the majority of the downforce generation is from lift reduction within the wheelwell. Hence why the initial testing was based off pressure differential within the wheelwells.

Note the tiny canards on the GT4 EVO.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

Canards don't produce downforce, they control and direct airflow ?

 

[garudathree]

Yeah, "everything affects everything" is what I hear aero engineers say. Canards should improve the efficiency of splitter ramps, both of which should reduce splitter height, which in turn increase L/D of the overall splitter.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

Those look nice though, I like them better than what else is available

it can also mean that they changed the overall flow to your wing and tossed off your FR balance.

wing DF spa's are generally measured in a CFD "vacuum" so those downforce numbers and aoa's don't apply when on a car. It's just good marketing

 

[razorlab]

For once I agree with Carl...

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

Yeah, "everything affects everything" is what I hear aero engineers say. Canards should improve the efficiency of splitter ramps, both of which should reduce splitter height, which in turn increase L/D of the overall splitter.

Man we can nerd on this for hours and still not have an answer.

what I'll say is that if you modify your aerodynamics, change nothing else, except adjust things to make them all synchronize and you don't get slower, then you're successful

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

For once I agree with Carl...

you secretly love me, I'm just hand to swallow because of my length and girth

 

[razorlab]

you secretly love me, I'm just hand to swallow because of my length and girth

We were having a moment and here you go ruining it again...

 

[garudathree]

Those look nice though, I like them better than what else is available

it can also mean that they changed the overall flow to your wing and tossed off your FR balance.

Definitely, it's somewhat irrelevant to this test, since I'm one of 2 people running a dual element rear on the supra, but I did flow vis the rear elements to test for increase in either separation, or stall speed. No differences observed so far, just the benefit of higher cornering loads at speed.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

We were having a moment and here you go ruining it again...

I do it with my wife too, I subconsciously fear peace and intimacy.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

Definitely, it's somewhat irrelevant to this test, since I'm one of 2 people running a dual element rear on the supra, but I did flow vis the rear elements to test for increase in either separation, or stall speed. No differences observed so far, just the benefit of higher cornering loads at speed.

not irrelevant, just too specific

when you change something on the front you have to test the full system over, it's why aero gets so expensive because of the contest "cfd, scale, tunnel, road" test cycles

but it's where you can get an advantage over competitors if money isn't an object and you have good people doing it

man I was good before but I've been talking with Andrew Brilliant on the daily for months now and I'm learning mountains to apply, it's really cool blending his f1 certified brain with my style

 

[razorlab]

Andrew Brilliant

gixxerdrew!

Old school DSM guy. I’ve lightly been following his work the last couple decades. Smart guy.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

gixxerdrew!

Old school DSM guy. I’ve lightly been following his work the last couple decades. Smart guy.

very smart guy, one of his designed cars had the fastest top speed at the most recent WTAC with much less power than the next fastest car which means it was aero powered and not power to weight

sorry to hijack @garudathree

if you can, test the side of the car airflow with and without the canards. The way GR built the car was to split the air down the sides and not over top center, the door canards (fake vents) kick air up under the rear wing in the back 1/3rd of the car which I believe drives that rear wing super hard.

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