Racing schools

[AndyK5]

Have you guys taken a race school? Which one? What did you get out of it?

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[sup.dc2]

sub'd.
like to get going on something like this too, like a car control class on a wet or dry skid pad when my rear tires are close to bald.

 

[tomfree]

I'll bite - there's a BUNCH of different ways you can look at this.

For those of us who came up through the ranks of "High performance drivers education" events, a lot of people consider those a "racing" school (quotes applied strategically). That's the entry point into true wheel-to-wheel racing for a lot of us, and you can find many, many HPDE type events around the country, likely at the track near you. In reality, a HPDE event does NOT teach you racing, it teaches you how to drive safely and quickly around a track. You are not competing against anyone, all traffic is controlled, etc. Many folks move from those events into some kind of competition (time trials, wheel-to-wheel)

Another way to look at this is what I'd consider a very focused/dedicated racing school like Skip Barber, Bondurant, Bertil Roos, or similar. Most are arrive and drive, where you go through training and end up with a certificate at the end of the event that can be used to get a racing license (SCCA, NASA). These are pretty expensive, and generally not the "first time you go on track" kind of events. It assumes a certain level of experience and skill walking in the door.

Edit - sup.dc2 - your avatar says you've been on track before, so you likely get the difference between the two.

 

[kyle9]

Skip Barber is absolutely atrocious.

Would recommend avoiding unless you’re going for free. Any random HPDE instructor or actual driving coach will be much more helpful.

 

[tomfree]

Skip Barber is absolutely atrocious.

Would recommend avoiding unless you’re going for free. Any random HPDE instructor or actual driving coach will be much more helpful.

You are not the first person I've heard say that about Skippy schools, and I've heard it about Bondurant as well. The folks I've met that liked them went in with a VERY narrow focus - getting their license quickly. They were quick already, and the "teaching" part of the school was waaaay below their skill level.

The best weekend I ever had on track as a student was with a personal coach. I arranged with a local track day provider that I was bringing my own coach, vs using one of their instructors. I spent the whole weekend with him, so we talked before sessions, stayed in the car for a good 10-15 min after a session for debriefs, and then just shooting the sh!t over dinner as well.

 

[Carl - Driveway Labs]

If you want to do it in your car, go do autoX

If you want a proper school experience that will teach you ungodly vehicle control then I would recommend O'Neil Rally School up in NH.

it's where pastrana, block, (me), etc went to learn.

After you learn to be fast without traction, I'd say skip barber at ViR and ask for Adam

 

[AndyK5]

I'll bite - there's a BUNCH of different ways you can look at this.

For those of us who came up through the ranks of "High performance drivers education" events, a lot of people consider those a "racing" school (quotes applied strategically). That's the entry point into true wheel-to-wheel racing for a lot of us, and you can find many, many HPDE type events around the country, likely at the track near you. In reality, a HPDE event does NOT teach you racing, it teaches you how to drive safely and quickly around a track. You are not competing against anyone, all traffic is controlled, etc. Many folks move from those events into some kind of competition (time trials, wheel-to-wheel)

Another way to look at this is what I'd consider a very focused/dedicated racing school like Skip Barber, Bondurant, Bertil Roos, or similar. Most are arrive and drive, where you go through training and end up with a certificate at the end of the event that can be used to get a racing license (SCCA, NASA). These are pretty expensive, and generally not the "first time you go on track" kind of events. It assumes a certain level of experience and skill walking in the door.

Edit - sup.dc2 - your avatar says you've been on track before, so you likely get the difference between the two.

Ah, yes I meant actual racing schools. I have 40+ track days under my belt and can't seem to get any faster anymore. I've had some in car instruction both free and paid and I did not get much out of it. I am looking for things like picking a specific section of the track to set up a pass or figure out the fastest way around a corner I have never seen before, judging both the camber, severity and the length of the straight right after it.

Skip Barber is absolutely atrocious.

Would recommend avoiding unless you’re going for free. Any random HPDE instructor or actual driving coach will be much more helpful.

I have heard this as well, not sure where. It is a lot of money to be spent if its not good....we are talking like $7k.

 

[nibble]

depends on your goal... if you are trying to get racing license, you can go to skip barber, pay, and get license. If your goal is to race, participate in HPDE days with proper racing groups as well as organization who can provide instructors in any level including DE4 or TT. Having a good instructor even in DE4 will help you a lot. or get in with an instructor in his/her right seat. Even as an instructor, I learn more from right seat than actually driving. Once you are comfortable with DE4 or TT, attend Competition License Clinic in the organization and get provisional license. as for NASA, only after minimum required races participated, you will get proper license.

 

[nibble]

Ah, yes I meant actual racing schools. I have 40+ track days under my belt and can't seem to get any faster anymore. I've had some in car instruction both free and paid and I did not get much out of it. I am looking for things like picking a specific section of the track to set up a pass or figure out the fastest way around a corner I have never seen before, judging both the camber, severity and the length of the straight right after it.




I have heard this as well, not sure where. It is a lot of money to be spent if its not good....we are talking like $7k.

this was posted as I was writing. if you are only looking to get faster in HPDE days, Racing school is definitely not for you. you will need to find a right instructor who can really help you or actually race in TT or wheel to wheel. - once you learn how to go faster than other racers in spec series, you can apply similar principle to your HPDE car. You will find that there is some one whois faster than you. - if you are the fastest, you should be in F1 races. You just need to find a way to get faster other than updating car.

 

[razorlab]

Instructors are very very very hit or miss.

I've seen more instructors more concerned with their ego than your driving. Ironically, they are usually the slowest drivers at track days and then complain if you drive fast.

I was at an event last year where an instructor complained about us doing fast lap times, in advanced open passing group. We were not driving overly aggressive. I later found out that instructor was also making stuff up like we had 600hp and that is why we where fast. I mean, we probably had 600hp combined, since at the time we where both 100% stock power wise. Serious eye roll moment. Like I said... egos.

Most of the better known orgs seem to have the worst instructors. NASA, etc. Then you get some hidden gems that really have no ego and are happy to show you all the tips and tricks at the track that they have hundreds of laps on. Those are very rare.

Have you checked out Blayze yet? I have heard good things about it. I might try it out this winter and see if it offers some value to me.

 

[AndyK5]

this was posted as I was writing. if you are only looking to get faster in HPDE days, Racing school is definitely not for you. you will need to find a right instructor who can really help you or actually race in TT or wheel to wheel. - once you learn how to go faster than other racers in spec series, you can apply similar principle to your HPDE car. You will find that there is some one whois faster than you. - if you are the fastest, you should be in F1 races. You just need to find a way to get faster other than updating car.

My goal is to get faster for TT to begin with. I'd like to race at some point (clearly for fun), possibly an E30/36 or a spec/super miata but there is no point in racing if I am not hanging middle of the pack.

Have you checked out Blayze yet? I have heard good things about it. I might try it out this winter and see if it offers some value to me.

So I did watch the blayze video for Buttonwillow Raceway CW13 here

It is perfect. I liked it alot, need to look in to how to get training from Dion von Moltke.

 

[razorlab]

So I did watch the blayze video for Buttonwillow Raceway CW13 here

It is perfect. I liked it alot, need to look in to how to get training from Dion von Moltke.

Yea you pay to get virtual coaching, they analyze your videos and give input.

 

[AndyK5]

Yea you pay to get virtual coaching, they analyze your videos and give input.

Do you get to pick your video analyzer and coach or is it someone that Blayze decides themselves?

 

[razorlab]

Do you get to pick your video analyzer and coach or is it someone that Blayze decides themselves?

You pick your coach. I believe you either upload your video or link to youtube.

@garudathree has used them and has good things to say.

 

[frankenm]

One thing I learned going through hpde was sometimes you just hit a point in your progression where it takes watching and feeling the car with someone else in control for your brain to click how it works with more speed

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