Why I Think Everyone is Wrong About the MKV (Video)

[A70TTR]

it looks a lot like the current render from front to rear, but you also have to remember that the render has like 19/20" wheels, it's lowered, and it's from an angle that's very pleasing.

the car does have a decent front overhang, but I feel the back is more on the normal side. it's also not so much the whole front end as it is the nose that sticks out.

I dunno, I guess it doesn't really bother me, as I own an A70 and have owned the A80 so I'm used to that look.

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[PerformanceSound]

Plus, the Mclaren F1 has a bimmer engine

Alot of cars have BMW engines (look at Mini...not so great in the reliability department), and while I do appreciate the engineering and technology that goes into those engines, I feel that they are not built for the long haul or to be pushed far out of the box. This has been my gripe with putting a BMW (or any German) motor in a established Japanese sports car known for not only making gobbs of power on stock internals, but known for being extremely reliable! Sure McLaren uses BMW engines, but how many miles get put on a McLaren every year?...100?...200? If Toyota calls the FT-1 a “Supra” they better make damn sure the motor can not only handle big power out of the box, but also stand the test of time!

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

If this thing were to use the new LS' TTV6 than we probably wouldn't see it in showroom floors until 2030.

 

[A70TTR]

I've said this before, but Tada actually told me he was annoyed by the influx of people saying how the SPX needs to produce and/or handle X amount of power. He said, while tuneability is always taken into account, the goal of the car is in no way to do what the last car (mkiv) did. He was also taken aback by the comments on it having to have a manual, but I told him point blank that not having that was likely a mistake for a multitude of reasons.

That's what makes talking to people about this car hard. Is it a new Supra? Yes, more or less, but not for the reasons folks want it to be. It's a successor to the production JZA80-TT, not the legendary 1000hp monster the aftermarket made it into. And that was yet another point of contention; the whole mkiv drag racing, highway pulls, and general straight line/ big power thing pushed them even harder into making this car better at road courses and Tada really wanted to distance this car from that ideology (they called it the American image). I agree with that move wholeheartedly as I prefer cars that have a strict push towards performance on road courses and I hate hearing how Supras are only great because they make crazy power and travel in a straight line.


Ultimately though, that's why I'm not really in favor of the car being dubbed a Supra versus SPX, FTS, or some of the other internal names they have atm. The car took on way too much of a separate life after production and now that's all people see. Of course, that's a huge reason it was popular too, so...


(They thought I was nuts for having 600hp in my A70 (~3250lbs after decent weight loss) and were in disbelief when I told them I do canyon runs with it no problem.)

 

[tfoxyr]

I actually agree that this car doesn't need to be some kind of power monster , and in my opinion about 400hp give or take is perfect for any road (9/10 times much more than enough). I think the keys to success here though lies not only at power or handling but , also the layout and price . Dont get it wrong power and handling are number 1 priority but layout and price are a things that are considered by someone who will use it as a daily driver and maybe his/her only car. For me for example it is very important that this car have enough power (~400hp or ~280 hp for 4 cyl) it is priced reasonably (60k max->6 cyl , 45k max -> 4 cyl) , 2+2 layout and is nimble(this car already seems to have a weight advantage so i think it is ok) and last the reliability should be top notch as most toyota products.

 

[PerformanceSound]

That's what makes talking to people about this car hard. Is it a new Supra? Yes, more or less, but not for the reasons folks want it to be. It's a successor to the production JZA80-TT, not the legendary 1000hp monster the aftermarket made it into.

Not because of the legendary 1000hp monster!?!?!?! The MKIV was developed to handle gobbs of power from the drawing boards, and then detuned for street use....just like the GTR it was created to compete against. I believe the term in racing is called “homologation.” One rule of homologation being that race cars need to be based on production cars. That’s what made the Supra (specifically the 2JZ) so great, is the fact that it was first a race car/engine, then detuned to be used in a street car application. If your “sources” or Tada San say otherwise, it’s simply a way to steer the public away from the fact that the new “Supra” won’t live up to the MKIV’s standards and to accept the new car as a bean counting marketing gimmick.

The Supra nameplate is what it is today because of what the MKIV was mechanically capable of, not because of the MKIV’s handling, looks, or interior. You can evolve cars like the Porsche 911 every generation by increasing output 30-50hp and they will sell because Porsche’s aren’t known for being horsepower monsters when modified on stock bottom-ends. In other words, Porsche can say the next generation 911 will be better than the previous generation because it truly evolves in every aspect of the previous generation. In the Supra’s case, unless the new Supra has a motor as capable as the MKIV’s, it technically isn’t an evolution of the car....right? Look at what Nissan did with the R35 GTR...they got Lotus and a few other race car divisions involved to basically develop the GTR as a race car first to evolve the GTR brand, and then they detuned it for street use. Now, the R35 GTR is kicking assss and taking names in the import world....with it’s VR38DETT capable of 1000hp on stock internals.

Tada is worried that the Supra took on a different image in American hands??? Well, who do you think will be buying the new car?....Americans! If Toyota wants to make another Supra, the only people that will buy them are the drag racers, highway pullers, tuners, etc... If it will be called something else, then the 10% northshore yuppies with their golf bags will probably shop for them. Again, as i’ve said before, if they call this car anything else other than a Supra...then they will have a winner. To call it a Supra only to trick the public into thinking they will be getting a superior model to its predecessor (MKIV) just to move cars is ridiculous....unless they over engineer the hell out of it....just like the MKIV.

 

[PerformanceSound]

If this thing were to use the new LS' TTV6 than we probably wouldn't see it in showroom floors until 2030.

Why do you say that? Lexus cars only cost double because of the luxury bits, not the mechanicals. We have seen this time and time again (V8 4Runner & GX470, Lancruiser and LX570, Camry V6 & ES300, etc...). They share the same powertrains, with the only difference being the luxury parts. Didn’t take ages to hit the showrooms. Now did it?

 

[MA617M]

I'm glad they're steering away from the straight line image for this car. The Supra was, and is, so much more than that. If I wanted something that just did highway pulls, it'd be an SS commodore with an LS3 or a Falcon turbo (I don't know what the US call the commodore)

The JZA80 was a fantastic handling car, in its day held Gs higher than its competitors on the skidpan and had the braking record for many years. Plus it's massive diet over the A70, including hollow carpet and wing, slippery drag coefficient, and more. It's why I run a square wheel/tyre set up on my JZA80 - the handling is so much more adjustable and balanced.

It is funny how the car was tuned in different markets. In Europe and Australia for example, they are far less highway monsters than they are in the US.

Also interested where the 2JZ was actually used in racing. It was mostly overshadowed by the 3S and UZ in JGTC, I am not sure where it was actually raced competitively. Yes it was designed to beat the RB26 - but not on the circuit.

It is a great, strong engine. It's not a very efficient engine by design, it's beauty is in filling it with 30psi on stock internals and it not breaking. But there is much more to the supra than just it's engine.

Otherwise we'd be talking about the legendary Aristo, or any other 2JZ equipped vehicle.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

Why do you say that? Lexus cars only cost double because of the luxury bits, not the mechanicals. We have seen this time and time again (V8 4Runner & GX470, Lancruiser and LX570, Camry V6 & ES300, etc...). They share the same powertrains, with the only difference being the luxury parts. Didn’t take ages to hit the showrooms. Now did it?

All the examples you listed are just reskin cars. How long have we been waiting for that TTV8? I bet we are still years from seeing the TTV6 in the LC, despite it sharing the same platform as the LS. Toyota takes forever to release anything. I'm still waiting for that diesel Tundra.

 

[johnny_10196]

It will be longer than an 86 in overall length, with a shorter wheelbase. So, just imagine an 86 with more overhang.

Aka MK4; I recall reading an old article awhile back that said the new car will retain similar dimensions as it's predecessor.

 

[A70TTR]

I'm glad they're steering away from the straight line image for this car. The Supra was, and is, so much more than that. If I wanted something that just did highway pulls, it'd be an SS commodore with an LS3 or a Falcon turbo (I don't know what the US call the commodore)

The JZA80 was a fantastic handling car, in its day held Gs higher than its competitors on the skidpan and had the braking record for many years. Plus it's massive diet over the A70, including hollow carpet and wing, slippery drag coefficient, and more. It's why I run a square wheel/tyre set up on my JZA80 - the handling is so much more adjustable and balanced.

It is funny how the car was tuned in different markets. In Europe and Australia for example, they are far less highway monsters than they are in the US.

Also interested where the 2JZ was actually used in racing. It was mostly overshadowed by the 3S and UZ in JGTC, I am not sure where it was actually raced competitively. Yes it was designed to beat the RB26 - but not on the circuit.

It is a great, strong engine. It's not a very efficient engine by design, it's beauty is in filling it with 30psi on stock internals and it not breaking. But there is much more to the supra than just it's engine.

Otherwise we'd be talking about the legendary Aristo, or any other 2JZ equipped vehicle.

It was the 1J (JZA70) that was built specifically to compete with the RB26 (skyline), both on the circuit and off. Never happened on circuit though as Toyota pulled the A70 from Grp A in '91.

The 2J benefited from the bump in displacement and a few small changes to the head, but like you said the race cars went from 4cyl to V8s, and the JZ never saw track time in JGTC, Super GT, etc. I mean it's great it was overbuilt and reliable, but Toyota never intended for it to be what the aftermarket made it. I love my 1J, but I dont have this wild expectation that Toyota has to make another 1000hp capable stock bottom end.

Even the VR38 has to be built for anything over ~750whp (not 1000), so it's still not the end all be all. For reference, the Rb26 is good for about ~600whp on stock bottom end before it starts having issues.

I can almost guarantee the B58 will do 600+whp on stock bottom end (many of the higher end BMW I6 push into the 700s), so I don't think it's too bad at all. If that's not good enough, then build it like other BMW owners and make yourself a monster.

 

[MA617M]

It was the 1J (JZA70) that was built specifically to compete with the RB26 (skyline), both on the circuit and off. Never happened on circuit though as Toyota pulled the A70 from Grp A in '91.

Of course, how did I forget about the 1JZ development lol. The drop from 3 litre (7M) to 2.5 was to help it compete in a more competitive class IIRC?

But yes... the BMW six will be a good thing. The N55 is hugely capable, and the B58 is even stronger, so it should be good. Plus if it sounds half as good as their old M engines, even better.

 

[A70TTR]

yep, exactly ^

It was pretty shitty too because Yamaha helped design the entire motor, just like they did with the 3S (back then they didn't just work the heads slightly and slap their name on as people think, although they did do full engine development on the LF-A) to be competitive in the racing space, but instead Toyota opted to use one of the older 4cyls out of the Celicas that had already been proven. Then Toyota was like well, we originally wanted a 3L JZ anyways so lets just take the 1J, stroke it, alter the head to improve flow for extra displacement and call it even; no reason to waste Yamaha's time again. Thankfully they ended up using the 3SGTE which gave the nod back to Yamaha, but the whole thing was kinda lame.

 

[MA617M]

I guess they could share 3S development across the WRC as well, which kinda makes sense.

 

[DevonK]

In that first shot in A70TTR's post above, there is no way the front bumper is production on that prototype - there looks to be a good 6" of extension. The tail also has some added bulk lower down but it's not as substantial. Other shots show the area above the rear wheel wells to be padded out as well.

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