Why I Think Everyone is Wrong About the MKV (Video)

[Spilner]

In that first shot in A70TTR's post above, there is no way the front bumper is production on that prototype - there looks to be a good 6" of extension. The tail also has some added bulk lower down but it's not as substantial. Other shots show the area above the rear wheel wells to be padded out as well.

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[Rotaryrunner]

Not because of the legendary 1000hp monster!?!?!?! The MKIV was developed to handle gobbs of power from the drawing boards, and then detuned for street use....just like the GTR it was created to compete against. I believe the term in racing is called “homologation.” One rule of homologation being that race cars need to be based on production cars. That’s what made the Supra (specifically the 2JZ) so great, is the fact that it was first a race car/engine, then detuned to be used in a street car application. If your “sources” or Tada San say otherwise, it’s simply a way to steer the public away from the fact that the new “Supra” won’t live up to the MKIV’s standards and to accept the new car as a bean counting marketing gimmick.

The Supra nameplate is what it is today because of what the MKIV was mechanically capable of, not because of the MKIV’s handling, looks, or interior. You can evolve cars like the Porsche 911 every generation by increasing output 30-50hp and they will sell because Porsche’s aren’t known for being horsepower monsters when modified on stock bottom-ends. In other words, Porsche can say the next generation 911 will be better than the previous generation because it truly evolves in every aspect of the previous generation. In the Supra’s case, unless the new Supra has a motor as capable as the MKIV’s, it technically isn’t an evolution of the car....right? Look at what Nissan did with the R35 GTR...they got Lotus and a few other race car divisions involved to basically develop the GTR as a race car first to evolve the GTR brand, and then they detuned it for street use. Now, the R35 GTR is kicking assss and taking names in the import world....with it’s VR38DETT capable of 1000hp on stock internals.

Tada is worried that the Supra took on a different image in American hands??? Well, who do you think will be buying the new car?....Americans! If Toyota wants to make another Supra, the only people that will buy them are the drag racers, highway pullers, tuners, etc... If it will be called something else, then the 10% northshore yuppies with their golf bags will probably shop for them. Again, as i’ve said before, if they call this car anything else other than a Supra...then they will have a winner. To call it a Supra only to trick the public into thinking they will be getting a superior model to its predecessor (MKIV) just to move cars is ridiculous....unless they over engineer the hell out of it....just like the MKIV.

America is not the only market in the world...

And straight line performance isn't everything, a twisty mountain road or a track is so much more fun then just going straight.

I am pretty sure they will build a great car and if you want it to have a thousand horsepower I am also sure that you can make it happen.

Let it go, the MKIV Supra was something special and nothing can replace it

 

[tfoxyr]

I am pretty sure we can can have both a pretty powerful car n the 400 hp region and also handle well , i don't understand why it will have to be this or the other. Also bmw engines can handle power , not 1000hp but i believe 550-600 is a good amount if you want to tune it with mostly stock parts , and some clever tuning and also cheap enough in my opinion.

 

[vb22]

In that first shot in A70TTR's post above, there is no way the front bumper is production on that prototype - there looks to be a good 6" of extension. The tail also has some added bulk lower down but it's not as substantial. Other shots show the area above the rear wheel wells to be padded out as well.

Yeah but you have to look at where the headlights & taillights are / how far they stick out. Not to mention the exhaust tips.

 

[johnny_10196]

Fake bumpers on prototype cars don't add that much extra length.

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

America is not the only market in the world...

No, but we we're the second largest market for the MK4.

Japan: 31,575
North America: 11,673
Europe: 1,698

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm

 

[vb22]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Toyota's sales in general low in Europe. I read something awhile ago that said Europeans prefer German, Italian, English, French, and etc. over Japanese and American cars.

America is not the only market in the world...

I'm going to use this one again.

 

[Rotaryrunner]

This is for Germany, Toyota is somewhere in the middle.

https://www.google.de/search?q=kfz+..._AUICigC&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=ooOi-AI61v7VvM:

But the market for affordable sports cars is different because it is just a small piece of the big cake, and in this case it doesn't matter which country the cars are from.

edit: we are a bit off topic

 

[PerformanceSound]

Even the VR38 has to be built for anything over ~750whp (not 1000), so it's still not the end all be all. For reference, the Rb26 is good for about ~600whp on stock bottom end before it starts having issues.

I can almost guarantee the B58 will do 600+whp on stock bottom end (many of the higher end BMW I6 push into the 700s), so I don't think it's too bad at all. If that's not good enough, then build it like other BMW owners and make yourself a monster.

I’d gladly invite AMS to this thread for their input on the VR38DETT’s stock capabilities. I’m sure it will surprise the hell out of many of this forum.

Again, many engines can be “pushed” way past their advertised ratings....how long they can stay in one piece is a whole different ball game. That’s the beauty of going with a Toyota motor, it’s reliability first and foremost then performance. It’s their company principle! BMW and most german car makers do the opposite....performance first, reliability second. In many cases this equates to less than favorable car ratings and owner experiences. Not to mention terrible depreciation of the cars value. Had BMW supplied the motor 20yrs ago to Toyota, maybe I wouldn’t have any doubts on reliability....but let’s be real, the new motors out of Stuttgart are disappointing from a reliability standpoint.

 

[bogglo]

I’d gladly invite AMS to this thread for their input on the VR38DETT’s stock capabilities. I’m sure it will surprise the hell out of many of this forum.

Again, many engines can be “pushed” way past their advertised ratings....how long they can stay in one piece is a whole different ball game. That’s the beauty of going with a Toyota motor, it’s reliability first and foremost then performance. It’s their company principle! BMW and most german car makers do the opposite....performance first, reliability second. In many cases this equates to less than favorable car ratings and owner experiences. Not to mention terrible depreciation of the cars value. Had BMW supplied the motor 20yrs ago to Toyota, maybe I wouldn’t have any doubts on reliability....but let’s be real, the new motors out of Stuttgart are disappointing from a reliability standpoint.

I agree with you. But Do you really think Toyota is not aware of the reliability issues with BMW engines? Common lets give them some credit. Toyota know that they are known for reliability and I don't think they are ready to give that up yet. Apart from what we have been told about the reason for the delay of the launch of this car I wont be surprised if making sure the reliability is solid is another reason for the delay.

As for performance there is nothing stopping them from making a 700hp car if they want to. They make the engine they know what it's capable off. But they had rather make a well balanced daily driver car. IMO this car is going to be more of a Porsche competitor than any other car. And we should pray they don't leave their signature (Unbreakable ECU) on it.

 

[Spilner]

I agree with you. But Do you really think Toyota is not aware of the reliability issues with BMW engines? Common lets give them some credit. Toyota know that they are known for reliability and I don't think they are ready to give that up yet. Apart from what we have been told about the reason for the delay of the launch of this car I wont be surprised if making sure the reliability is solid is another reason for the delay.

As for performance there is nothing stopping them from making a 700hp car if they want to. They make the engine they know what it's capable off. But they had rather make a well balanced daily driver car. IMO this car is going to be more of a Porsche competitor than any other car. And we should pray they don't leave their signature (Unbreakable ECU) on it.

i don't get why people expect the STOCK version to hang with the GTR, that's what Liberty Walk and Rocketbunny are there for

 

[DevonK]

Fake bumpers on prototype cars don't add that much extra length.

Just because they didn't on that particular SUV doesn't mean they don't or won't on other vehicles. On that full-side profile shot of the prototype posted above, the headlights were buried several inches back from the front of the bumper- fairly convincing evidence that the nose had some added extension meant to deceive us about the true shape of the front end.

 

[johnny_10196]

Just because they didn't on that particular SUV doesn't mean they don't or won't on other vehicles. On that full-side profile shot of the prototype posted above, the headlights were buried several inches back from the front of the bumper- fairly convincing evidence that the nose had some added extension meant to deceive us about the true shape of the front end.

Maybe an inch or two sure, but 6 inches? That is a little extreme IMO. And angle and camera lens plays a big role as well. In this shot it doesn't look too bad.

 

[MotorFF]

1000bhp on stock internals.....I've heard this comment "1000bhp on stock internals" so many times but let's set the record straight - greatest majority of these "on stock internals" cars are pushing 450-480 bhp. Anything beyond that is a grenade waiting to go off. Anybody building a car in the 800bhp+ is pulling these engines apart and changing/modifying everything.
Is MK-V engine going to be better and capable of more power then the 2JZ - for sure it will.
It will be the same situation how VR38DETT annihilated the RB26DETT, and trust me RB26 had nothing on the VR regardless of it being "1000bhp on stock internals" capable...joke. Don't ask how I know.

 

[PerformanceSound]

1000bhp on stock internals.....I've heard this comment "1000bhp on stock internals" so many times but let's set the record straight - greatest majority of these "on stock internals" cars are pushing 450-480 bhp. Anything beyond that is a grenade waiting to go off. Anybody building a car in the 800bhp+ is pulling these engines apart and changing/modifying everything.
Is MK-V engine going to be better and capable of more power then the 2JZ - for sure it will.
It will be the same situation how VR38DETT annihilated the RB26DETT, and trust me RB26 had nothing on the VR regardless of it being "1000bhp on stock internals" capable...joke. Don't ask how I know.

No one said “1000bhp” or “1000whp”.....I said 1000hp (at the crank), and if you think the 2JZ or the RB26 can’t make 1000hp (at the crank) on stock internals (bottom-end), PM me and I can introduce you to two very nice gentlemen here in Chicago who will prove you very wrong....”ask me how I know.”

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