News, Updates, and Discussions on next-gen A100 Supra

SoupRaw

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I can almost guarantee that Toyota wouldn't have a 100% Toyota Supra by 2025....

I mean, this MKV Toyota/BMW partnership was a 10 year project in itself. I must've gotten lucky, too. 24K miles, been driving the car like I stole it, and still runs like a top :)
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nateog

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Okay, not sure if this has been talked about at all on here, I did a quick search and nothing popped up. I have it from a fairly reliable source that the head of Toyota North America stated in a recent meeting in Mexico that the 2024 and 2025 Supras will be a 100% Toyota produced product. What I was told is Toyota has not been happy with the partnership and the engines and is killing the partnership after the 2023 models.

anyone else hear this and can confirm the validity?
this all sounds like BS to me. The MK5 Supra, Toyota has said from the start, will have a 6 year life cycle. That means it’ll live from the 2020 model year to 2025. After that, Toyota has also publicly said, the 6th gen Supra will be electric. No reason for them to develop a whole new online 6 engine on their own. I’ve spoken with multiple dealers and Toyota folks who’ve confirmed all this to me as well.

i think you’re source is caught up in some rumors.
 

ToyoBMW

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I believe the MKV is only planned to run thru to 2023, if it comes back in 2024, it would have to be a new revamped model. Everything will remain the same until 2023.

Of course the fortune cookie here will be whether or not they will release the manual stick shift in 2023 as a going away surprise or on a revamped 2024.
 

PerformanceSound

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this all sounds like BS to me. The MK5 Supra, Toyota has said from the start, will have a 6 year life cycle. That means it’ll live from the 2020 model year to 2025. After that, Toyota has also publicly said, the 6th gen Supra will be electric. No reason for them to develop a whole new online 6 engine on their own. I’ve spoken with multiple dealers and Toyota folks who’ve confirmed all this to me as well.

i think you’re source is caught up in some rumors.
Toyota has said alot of things and has surprised many of us in the process. As cool as an all electric Supra sounds, Toyota’s heavy investment in hybrid and hydrogen technology says otherwise. Lookup why Toyota sold all their Tesla shares and doesn’t truly believe in an all-EV future for cars regarding carbon neutrality. The Japanese giant has the top engineers in; mechanical, electrical, chemical, and dynamics in the industry. They know what their talking about. Yes, they lack in some design and marketing, but they aren’t where they are right now because of rolling dice. Porsche is also in the same mindset and many more will eventually catch on. Would I love to see an all-electric Supra with 1000hp/tq from the factory
.hell yeah! Is it realistic for a low-volume sports car? I’m not so sure. I think hybrid/gas or hydrogen maybe the Supra’s future.
 
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stylett9

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Toyota has said alot of things and has surprised many of us in the process. As cool as an all electric Supra sounds, Toyota’s heavy investment in hybrid and hydrogen technology says otherwise. Lookup why Toyota sold all their Tesla shares and doesn’t truly believe in an all-EV future for cars regarding carbon neutrality. The Japanese giant has the top engineers in; mechanical, electrical, chemical, and dynamics in the industry. They know what their talking about. Yes, they lack in some design and marketing, but they aren’t where they are right now because of rolling dice. Porsche is also in the same mindset and many more will eventually catch on. Would I love to see an all-electric Supra with 1000hp/tq from the factory
.hell yeah! Is it realistic for a low-volume sports car? I’m not so sure. I think hybrid/gas or hydrogen maybe the Supra’s future.
I know what you mean, many executives from Toyota have long been vocal about the unrealistic viability of an all electric future for vehicles. However, I think due to government pressure and subsidies, they have began to accept they can only fight the pressure for so long before they have to give into politics to stay in business. I think many of Toyota's future EV vehicles are not because they wanted to, but because they have to.

Going back to the original poster's question. I also call BS. Toyota can spend upwards of 10 years doing RD on engine and transmissions. Maybe it's just a twist of words lost in translation. Perhaps 2023 marks when contracts with bmw end or something, and going forward they'll need to re-evaluate the future of Supra.
 

KahnBB6

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I know what you mean, many executives from Toyota have long been vocal about the unrealistic viability of an all electric future for vehicles. However, I think due to government pressure and subsidies, they have began to accept they can only fight the pressure for so long before they have to give into politics to stay in business. I think many of Toyota's future EV vehicles are not because they wanted to, but because they have to.

Going back to the original poster's question. I also call BS. Toyota can spend upwards of 10 years doing RD on engine and transmissions. Maybe it's just a twist of words lost in translation. Perhaps 2023 marks when contracts with bmw end or something, and going forward they'll need to re-evaluate the future of Supra.
This seems to be the case, plus Toyota making a big bet on leapfrog technologies (solid state batteries and a hydrogen refueling infrastructure being widely available) that are not going to serve in the short term but rather over the long term.

The future type of powertrain for the Supra likely is being evaluated now but its future really should be assured no matter what.

In the near term it would have to be an electric hybrid for the very next generation but after that an all-electric generation without compromises should be possible.

The rest of their lineup in the meantime will undoubtedly be a mix of EV’s and hybrids from model year 2026 onward as per the internal mandate A70TTR mentioned many months ago. Hybrids at minimum for any new models with “legacy” products finish out in their current gas-only generations (ie: Supra MKV, 2nd gen 86, GR Corolla).
 

PerformanceSound

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If it makes you feel better, here's Toyota's own page: https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/36254760.html

and Car and Driver's: https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/bz4x
I wasn’t denying the article, lol. It’s just that in general the Guardian isn’t the most reliable source of anything. Yes, they are adding a few EV’s to stay “compliant” with “changing” politics. However, Toyota has said over and over they don’t agree that an all-EV is the right direction.
 

KahnBB6

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I wasn’t denying the article, lol. It’s just that in general the Guardian isn’t the most reliable source of anything. Yes, they are adding a few EV’s to stay “compliant” with “changing” politics. However, Toyota has said over and over they don’t agree that an all-EV is the right direction.
The Guardian has been known to be quite reliable and long established but we’re getting off topic.

No matter what anyone’s opinion on the matter of decarbonization is Toyota Motor Co doesn’t have any control over what world governments are putting into motion with eventual zero emission sales.

Maybe they have the most lobbying leverage within Japan but other than that they’re on the same playing field as all other automakers in a few years.

They’ll shift very seamlessly into hybrids for the very next generation of most Toyota/Lexus models but following that by 2035 there will have to be some form of zero emission products making up all their new vehicle sales.

What they’re doing today with that one lithium-ion EV crossover isn’t the same as what they’ll be making technology-wise by 2035.

Right now is their last big hurrah era with regular internal combustion and hybrids, including the current bunch of GR’s. In a few years I do think they will get their leapfrog solid state tech into volume production. Their fuel cell tech depends on how well the trucking industry and military takes to a hydrogen refueling infrastructure buildout (ie: like diesel availability on highways today).

The hydrogen internal combustion GR Yaris racecar is very cool but anything like that would need the refueling infrastructure to support it.

No automaker can avoid the shift to eventual zero emissions. However that doesn’t mean they will all be boring and uninteresting Tesla clones that are huge and weigh 5,000+ lbs in a few years.

In any case, we’re not there yet. Right now there are a few more years of pure gas GR models followed by hybrids and some select mainstream Toyota/Lexus EVs and after that a total shift to all zero emission vehicles.
 

PerformanceSound

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The Guardian has been known to be quite reliable and long established but we’re getting off topic.

No matter what anyone’s opinion on the matter of decarbonization is Toyota Motor Co doesn’t have any control over what world governments are putting into motion with eventual zero emission sales.

Maybe they have the most lobbying leverage within Japan but other than that they’re on the same playing field as all other automakers in a few years.

They’ll shift very seamlessly into hybrids for the very next generation of most Toyota/Lexus models but following that by 2035 there will have to be some form of zero emission products making up all their new vehicle sales.

What they’re doing today with that one lithium-ion EV crossover isn’t the same as what they’ll be making technology-wise by 2035.

Right now is their last big hurrah era with regular internal combustion and hybrids, including the current bunch of GR’s. In a few years I do think they will get their leapfrog solid state tech into volume production. Their fuel cell tech depends on how well the trucking industry and military takes to a hydrogen refueling infrastructure buildout (ie: like diesel availability on highways today).

The hydrogen internal combustion GR Yaris racecar is very cool but anything like that would need the refueling infrastructure to support it.

No automaker can avoid the shift to eventual zero emissions. However that doesn’t mean they will all be boring and uninteresting Tesla clones that are huge and weigh 5,000+ lbs in a few years.

In any case, we’re not there yet. Right now there are a few more years of pure gas GR models followed by hybrids and some select mainstream Toyota/Lexus EVs and after that a total shift to all zero emission vehicles.
Sorry bro, The Guardian is a left leg of CNN
but that’s neither here nor there. Long term, and the advances of extracting Hydrogen from various new sources will be a better solution. Hyundai is now investing billions in Hydrogen Wave as well. Wait for it, after gasoline hybrids, hydrogen fuel cells will be choice.
 

KahnBB6

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Sorry bro, The Guardian is a left leg of CNN
but that’s neither here nor there. Long term, and the advances of extracting Hydrogen from various new sources will be a better solution. Hyundai is now investing billions in Hydrogen Wave as well. Wait for it, after gasoline hybrids, hydrogen fuel cells will be choice.
"Sorry bro"? I'm very confused that we're on a thread about the future of the Toyota Supra and you're going on about news organizations that you don't like. That's irrelevant and personally I'm only interested in discussing the future of the Supra, their other GR models, future GR models and Toyota's overall future as they evolve their technology and vehicle designs to meet industry and global challenges. I don't care where the car industry news comes from or who is publishing the articles.

I do agree that hydrogen is another good long term solution... *especially* in applications where extreme battery weight for the range and power density needed is a no-go (aviation, marine, industrial) but we've got a ways to go with that yet even if some very limited markets support hydrogen cars.

I have driven a friend's 1st gen Mirai in California and it was neat... like an upscale Prius approaching the size of an LS460. Its cooling fans for the fuel cell stack coming on loudly while flooring it was a fun aspect. It still felt like I was driving a big brother to the Prius but it showed promise for future applications. My friend and his wife have to carefully plan out all their trips in it due to the current infrastructure limitations however but in their specific area it works for them.

Hydrogen isn't viable on a mass scale yet but yes it eventually it will be alongside battery technologies FAR better than today's very compromised lithium-ion packs. Super-capacitors may be in the mix by then as well.

I'm aware of Hyundai's investments in H2, yes.

I've been saying in more than one post in this thread that right now the next phase of Toyota powertrains will be hybrids across the board with *some* battery electric 100% EV's. Then the next phase after that will be Toyota's solid state battery tech (unless QuantumScape beats them to the holy grail first) and whatever mix of hydrogen fuel cell tech that each country's infrastructure can support.

Keep in mind that compressed hydrogren gas in multi-layer carbon fiber tanks such as the Mirai uses today may not be the only form that hydrogen fuel may take.

One weird variation that has been tried is a paste form with magnesium as a key component (ignore the article path link wording and just read it-- the content is about this H2 paste):
https://www.businessinsider.com/car-bike-tesla-amazon-gates-bezos-climate-change-fuel-drone-2021-2

And:
https://newatlas.com/energy/powerpaste-hydrogen-fuel-paste/


Another is a storage method that is extremely similar to large format magnetic cartridges that "play" like cassettes as they expend their hydrogen into the vehicle:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...utionize-hydrogen-storage-for-evs-167256.html

I couldn't tell you if hydrogen tanks or one of these other delivery/storage methods or something else entirely will become prevalent by 2035.

But whatever form hydrogen takes it will exist alongside next and next-next gen battery pack designs that will make today's 5,000lb Model S and Taycan lithium packs that take up entire floorpans seem like dinosaur technology (which it will be).

...

As of right now I'm still enthusiastic about what updates the MKV will get before its final model year and what form an A100 will take before those technologies and infrastructure for them improve way beyond what we've got in 2021.
 

Bryster

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You have to remember Toyota's reservations about current EV technology
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