Beware of Continental Toyota in Hodgkins, IL

[duke8253]

Feels like I should post it here. Since my car is on hold, I've been searching around to see if there are any Supra's that has an earlier ETA or already on the lot, and this is what I got from Continental Toyota （I've redacted the names in the conversation to protect privacy）.

First of all, they're charging $3,498 for paint protection? Isn't that supposed to be $485 (front bumper) + $439 (hood and door cups) options from factory? Am I wrong thinking this is a scam?

And then after talking that off they are now charging $299 for "window etching" and is quite firm on that.

They are also charging a $2500 non-refundable deposit and told me that "there's another potential buyer that is looking to do that but needs to discuss with his wife about it". I hope his wife said no.

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[Danimal]

I live very close to this dealer, and they’re along my typical evening cruise route in the Supra. Never been there, for clarity, so can’t add to the discussion other than saying I also don’t do business with dealers that play these types of games with their customers.

 

[concept]

I see red flags when a dealership pulls that paint protection "scam".
After I bought my car, I had 2/3 of it covered with thick (STEK) PPF for $3500. That's most likely much better than what that dealership is offering.
Have you looked outside of your area? (toyota.com) You can always drive your car on a nice road trip after purchase.

 

[splv]

Stay away from that dealership. Scam nation.

 

[duke8253]

I see red flags when a dealership pulls that paint protection "scam".
After I bought my car, I had 2/3 of it covered with thick (STEK) PPF for $3500. That's most likely much better than what that dealership is offering.
Have you looked outside of your area? (toyota.com) You can always drive your car on a nice road trip after purchase.

I’ll probably wait for mine, it’s just that waiting for it to get out of hold, with no ETA, got me anxious so I started looking around to see if there is anything else. So far that’s the only one that has an early ETA. But after talking with them made me appreciate how easy it was with the dealership I’ve been working with.

 

[lucky phil]

I don't know why people whine about this stuff. For starters it's a free market economy and the dealer can charge what ever they like for a car, we all know this. As for the Protection package you would need to know the full details of what they are offering ( it may be in addition to the std option PP, who knows) but even if it's nothing special then the same applies. You can just shop at another dealer. If you sell your house what price are you going to accept, the price you ask for it or an even better price offered by a buyer. The latter of course. Everyone loves the free market economy until it doesn't work in their favour. Then they sook about it.
It's a simple equation, you want the car NOW you pay the freight.

Phil

 

[Danimal]

Phil, what is the point you’re trying to make? That the OP and everyone on here are saying that we shouldn’t have free markets?

The discussion is that the OP wants to find another dealer that doesn’t play games. That’s literally participating in the free market.

 

[duke8253]

I don't know why people whine about this stuff. For starters it's a free market economy and the dealer can charge what ever they like for a car, we all know this. As for the Protection package you would need to know the full details of what they are offering ( it may be in addition to the std option PP, who knows) but even if it's nothing special then the same applies. You can just shop at another dealer. If you sell your house what price are you going to accept, the price you ask for it or an even better price offered by a buyer. The latter of course. Everyone loves the free market economy until it doesn't work in their favour. Then they sook about it.
It's a simple equation, you want the car NOW you pay the freight.

Phil

So you’re claiming that scamming people is the right thing to do? And as a customer I should just suck up to it? Well, guess we’ll just have to disagree on that.

 

[lucky phil]

Phil, what is the point you’re trying to make? That the OP and everyone on here are saying that we shouldn’t have free markets?

The discussion is that the OP wants to find another dealer that doesn’t play games. That’s literally participating in the free market.

Look it's simple. To start with nobody knows the details of the PPF offered by the dealer, the OP is making assumptions. So the "scam" thing has no legs as things stand. But overriding all of this is no matter how you cut the deal if it doesn't suit you walk away. Dealers play with OTD figures all the time to get the profit the want on the vehicle, nothing new there.
What's new is a generation that wants their hands held. You don't like the deal, walk away.
When I ordered my top spec car and waited 13 months to get it in there was only 2 options, colour and Alcantara seats. For the Red and Yellow standard colours the Alcantara was a $4400 option but for the other colours available that came at various extra dollars over the base colour models the Alcantara option was $2400. I contacted Toyota Australia thinking there was a pricing error in their online pricing software. Nope that was the pricing and the deal. As much as I like the Alcantara option I'm not paying an extra two grand for an option others get for $2500 so I passed up on the Alcantara. Simple.
Same as I passed on a VW Touareg R 14 months ago as a DD because dealers wanted $6000 over RRP which I wasn't prepared to pay.
So if the OP wants to participate in the free market then he just looks elsewhere. Winging about the game is of no use. It's just the game. Deal is you need to be strong enough to play it which most of the " must have it now" generation don't seem to be.

Phil

 

[duke8253]

Look it's simple. To start with nobody knows the details of the PPF offered by the dealer, the OP is making assumptions. So the "scam" thing has no legs as things stand. But overriding all of this is no matter how you cut the deal if it doesn't suit you walk away. Dealers play with OTD figures all the time to get the profit the want on the vehicle, nothing new there.
What's new is a generation that wants their hands held. You don't like the deal, walk away.
When I ordered my top spec car and waited 13 months to get it in there was only 2 options, colour and Alcantara seats. For the Red and Yellow standard colours the Alcantara was a $4400 option but for the other colours available that came at various extra dollars over the base colour models the Alcantara option was $2400. I contacted Toyota Australia thinking there was a pricing error in their online pricing software. Nope that was the pricing and the deal. As much as I like the Alcantara option I'm not paying an extra two grand for an option others get for $2500 so I passed up on the Alcantara. Simple.
Same as I passed on a VW Touareg R 14 months ago as a DD because dealers wanted $6000 over RRP which I wasn't prepared to pay.
So if the OP wants to participate in the free market then he just looks elsewhere. Winging about the game is of no use. It's just the game. Deal is you need to be strong enough to play it which most of the " must have it now" generation don't seem to be.

Phil

First of all, I’m just sharing my experience, if you think that is whining then sure, I’m ok to be whining about it. Also, I do have information about that paint protection I did not include in the original post, because I thought that screenshot was clear enough, but apparently it’s not for you. The first thing I asked the salesman was can they remove all the “dealer installed” accessories since I don’t need them, and he replied “no, the car is already in transit so that means all the accessories are already installed.” And then after presenting him with another OTD quote I got, he “was able to talk to his manager” and remove those already installed accessories. And also, in the original post I asked whether it is wrong to think that price is a scam, because the price on the package is completely different from what Toyota shows in their build system. Clearly the dealership changed something on their end to make it show that price. I wouldn’t have even blinked if they just showed something like “market adjustment” like some other dealerships, I’ve talked to quite a few that requests a $5k mark up, but I just tell them that’s too much and I’ll pass, and won’t even consider to say anything about it here because I can’t be bothered. However I consider this as a scam, not because its price, but because how they are trying to get the customer to pay that price. Transparency is the reason, not the price. Also that window etching scam was a pretty well known thing, I don’t think I need to explain how that works.

 

[lucky phil]

First of all, I’m just sharing my experience, if you think that is whining then sure, I’m ok to be whining about it. Also, I do have information about that paint protection I did not include in the original post, because I thought that screenshot was clear enough, but apparently it’s not for you. The first thing I asked the salesman was can they remove all the “dealer installed” accessories since I don’t need them, and he replied “no, the car is already in transit so that means all the accessories are already installed.” And then after presenting him with another OTD quote I got, he “was able to talk to his manager” and remove those already installed accessories. And also, in the original post I asked whether it is wrong to think that price is a scam, because the price on the package is completely different from what Toyota shows in their build system. Clearly the dealership changed something on their end to make it show that price. I wouldn’t have even blinked if they just showed something like “marked adjustment”. I consider it as a scam, not because its price, but because how they are trying to get the customer to pay that price. Transparency is the reason, not the price. Also that window etching scam was a pretty well known thing, I don’t think I need to explain how that works.

Nope not heard of that. We don't have it as far as I know. At the end of the day it's just the cut and thrust of negotiating with a dealer and bargaining. I can't see any "scam" issues here. If the window etching is a scam then it's a pretty shit one with regards to a big earner for the dealer. Personally I'd drink $299 worth of free coffee and donuts at the dealers expense during the negotiating/purchase process, lol.

Phil

 

[duke8253]

Nope not heard of that. We don't have it as far as I know. At the end of the day it's just the cut and thrust of negotiating with a dealer and bargaining. I can't see any "scam" issues here. If the window etching is a scam then it's a pretty shit one with regards to a big earner for the dealer. Personally I'd drink $299 worth of free coffee and donuts at the dealers expense during the negotiating/purchase process, lol.

Phil

Then you should search for it on google. But seems like you are the type of guy who thinks they are right and the only one that’s right, so here’s the gist of it: the dealership etches the VIN of the car on the window, then tells the customer that is a “theft deterrent”, which also makes it easier for the police to locate the car if it ever gets stolen, and that insurance company will pay an extra amount to you if the car gets stolen. But none of that is true, you can go ask any police or insurance company for information related to window etching. So to summarize, the only thing you’re getting is an ugly string of characters etched on your window. There have also been news articles about dealerships loosing lawsuits for selling this service. Oh and btw, selling something while claiming it has features it doesn’t have IS a scam.

 

[lucky phil]

Then you should search for it on google. But seems like you are the type of guy who thinks they are right and the only one that’s right, so here’s the gist of it: the dealership etches the VIN of the car on the window, then tells the customer that is a “theft deterrent”, which also makes it easier for the police to locate the car if it ever gets stolen, and that insurance company will pay an extra amount to you if the car gets stolen. But none of that is true, you can go ask any police or insurance company for information related to window etching. So to summarize, the only thing you’re getting is an ugly string of characters etched on your window. There have also been news articles about dealerships loosing lawsuits for selling this service. Oh and btw, selling something while claiming it has features it doesn’t have IS a scam.

Actually selling something you "knowingly" claim has a feature you are aware it doesn't have is a scam or fraudulent. Everything you have presented could at the end of the day be explained by simple miscommunication and a lack of a thorough understanding of the details of something they have offered you. Personally I'm very cautious about calling out companies or people as scammers or dishonest. My personal yardstick is always "could I prove this in a court of law".
You have asked the question in your original post and I've given my view.
I hope you eventually get your car and are happy with it and the deal, honestly.

Phil

 

[duke8253]

Actually selling something you "knowingly" claim has a feature you are aware it doesn't have is a scam or fraudulent. Everything you have presented could at the end of the day be explained by simple miscommunication and a lack of a thorough understanding of the details of something they have offered you. Personally I'm very cautious about calling out companies or people as scammers or dishonest. My personal yardstick is always "could I prove this in a court of law".
You have asked the question in your original post and I've given my view.
I hope you eventually get your car and are happy with it and the deal, honestly.

Phil

You’ve just proven my point of always thinking you’re the only one that’s right. Truth is selling something without a feature but claiming it have is always a scam, go look it up in the dictionary. Oh but wait, I’ve done that for you, since I know you don’t like searching for stuff. Cambridge Dictionary defines scam as: a dishonest plan for making money or getting an advantage, especially one that involves tricking people.

Also, there are people who don’t know about it, for example you didn’t know about it before I explained it in the post just now. Or did you forget that already? And btw did you not see that I said there have been cases where dealerships lost lawsuits for selling this “window etching” service as a theft deterrent? For example https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/08/new-york-dealership-pay-298000-scamming-customers/

 

[lucky phil]

You’ve just proven my point of always thinking you’re the only one that’s right. Truth is selling something without a feature but claiming it have is always a scam, go look it up in the dictionary. Oh but wait, I’ve done that for you, since I know you don’t like searching for stuff. Cambridge Dictionary defines scam as: a dishonest plan for making money or getting an advantage, especially one that involves tricking people.

Also, there are people who don’t know about it, for example you didn’t know about it before I explained it in the post just now. Or did you forget that already? And btw did you not see that I said there have been cases where dealerships lost lawsuits for selling this “window etching” service as a theft deterrent? For example https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/08/new-york-dealership-pay-298000-scamming-customers/

OMG you haven't read anything apart from the headline in the article you linked have you. The dealership were fined for charging for VIN etching they "WERE NOT DOING" among other transgressions AND in the article it not only points out that VIN etching itself "ISN'T A SCAM" and that "plenty of Police and insurance companies" themselves recommend VIN etching and some insurance companies even offer a discount on the comprehensive portion of their policies for VIN etching. Congrats your an ace internet trawler. Now you just need to lean how to read the stuff you've trawled.

Phil

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