CSF Radiators - Upgraded Heat Exchanger for 2020+ MKV Supra

[geert.bieseman]

Car at 65C exactly hits a brick wall. So at least in my case its clear as to where the red zone is

Well yes that is what I was referring to.
Your baseline is 65 degrees as a 'normal heat condition', so you should compare it with that number under the same stress.

I don't care about numbers under normal driving. Only about what the temperatures are under heavy load (race track) or during extensive dyno runs on a hot day . Cause for normal driving etcetera, the standard radiator is just fine.

But we also need to make sure that during normal driving, the car gets up to temperature in colder conditions.
As always... trade-off haha

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[Darth]

Wouldn't that sound a little bit odd?
I mean: a sensor should be a sensor

The point where it is measured can be different, but I assume that a sensor on a car... is at the correct place to make sure the engine is not overheating.

Curious about the reply. As the ECU will take into account the car sensors.

Thats how it should be, however from my first trackday with the car I saw 297 F oil temp and 237 F coolant temp after two laps on track. Granted it was humid and hot but that was crazy enough to make me doubt these numbers. Idle temp are high even on cold starts.

So it made sense when I saw AMS post on their oil cooler testing.

 

[geert.bieseman]

Those temperatures can be normal on a trackday. Depending on the weather, session length, "abusage" of the car .
Keep in mind that every car is made to drive on the road. Meaning they are configured to get their temperature up at a normal level as fast as possible.

If it would be running high-end oilcoolers, radiators etcetera... you would not be able to keep your car up to temperature.
Same goes for your tires: getting/keeping enough heat on racetires while you are cruising on the road... hard to achieve.

Thats why it is not always "a good thing" to upgrade your coolers. You have to take into account the trade-off.
I am also running a thicker oil than the one recommended by Toyota/BMW. So I really have to get the oil at the right temperature, before flooring the car. But once its up to heat, its better for the engine.. not getting too thin at higher temperatures.

 

[Darth]

Those temperatures can be normal on a trackday. Depending on the weather, session length, "abusage" of the car .

They are NOT normal under any condition! Even under my condition the car was completely stock with stock tires, compared to many cars that day running r compound tires for longer sessions without reaching these temperatures.

260 F oil temp is as far as I would consider normal on any car under any condition on track.

 

[geert.bieseman]

They are NOT normal under any condition! Even under my condition the car was completely stock with stock tires, compared to many cars that day running r compound tires for longer sessions without reaching these temperatures.

260 F oil temp is as far as I would consider normal on any car under any condition on track.

Optimal oil temperature is around 100 degrees celcius (so around 210 Fahrenheit).
Taking into account that this temperature needs to be reached during normal driving in traffic, means that under track conditations... 260 Fahrenheit is normal and not such a big deal (always cool your engine down for a lap or 2 before going into the pits).

It is not uncommon to see 120-130 degrees celcius (250-270 fahrenheit) on a racetrack on a streetcar without additional modifications. One of the reasons why sessions are around 20 minutes maximum, and you start cooling down at around 16 minutes of the session. Alarming would be around 145-150 degrees celcius, don't do that for too long.
.
Just make sure you got the right oil for the track, which can still lubricate at higher temperature.
That is more important than looking at a gauge. And have your oil changed after an intense track day/weekend is best practice

Comparing to other cars is pointless:
Maybe they were not pushing their cars to the limiter, maybe they were running different setup, maybe their sensors are not accurate or in another location,...

P.S.: Not even a Lambo huracan evo or porsche GT3 RS is meant to drive intensivly and long on a racetrack.
Last year even seen a Mclaren 720s brake down after 2 laps on the track (ok broken coolant hose, but again its an expensive hypercar). 3 years before, porsche GT3 RS with cracked brakes. Track = extreme violence to any car

Off-topic: still the best memories I had over the years... at our most fameous track of Belgium (and most likely the rest of the world): Spa-Francorchamps

Driven there 3 times, would love to do it with the Supra. Maybe next car season when there is no covid19

 

[Darth]

Off-topic: still the best memories I had over the years... at our most fameous track of Belgium (and most likely the rest of the world): Spa-Francorchamps

Driven there 3 times, would love to do it with the Supra. Maybe next car season when there is no covid19

Mine two! Truly spectacular track specially Eau Rouge!! Hopefully will race on it again in Oct

 

[geert.bieseman]

Mine two! Truly spectacular track specially Eau Rouge!! Hopefully will race on it again in Oct

I hope you can make it. Maybe by october... COVID19 lockdown again in Europe (numbers aren't looking that good in whole of Europe due to summer season)
We will see which restrictions the lockdown will have.

On-topic: Let's see those "before and after"-numbers people haha

 

[Nonschlont]

This ^! Interested..

 

[a90moe]

Ok so the CSF heat exchanger is on.

Ambient temps and weather conditions have been very unstable lately (high humidty and high temps)

Tried to compare the closest runs possible since I did not have a lot of meth only pulls and wanted meth against meth + heat exchanger

Meth only
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 52c
End IAT 58c

Meth + Heat exchanger
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 51c
End IAT 57c

After comparing a few pulls I did not notice any reduction in overall IAT just like @Twisted Tuning mentioned however, IAT temp drop between runs is much faster after letting off and cruising. It is much better in recovery now

This translates into a more consistent performing car overall in the heat here which is an added bonus

It does help

 

[kona61]

Ok so the CSF heat exchanger is on.

Ambient temps and weather conditions have been very unstable lately (high humidty and high temps)

Tried to compare the closest runs possible since I did not have a lot of meth only pulls and wanted meth against meth + heat exchanger

Meth only
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 52c
End IAT 58c

Meth + Heat exchanger
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 51c
End IAT 57c

After comparing a few pulls I did not notice any reduction in overall IAT just like @Twisted Tuning mentioned however, IAT temp drop between runs is much faster after letting off and cruising. It is much better in recovery now

This translates into a more consistent performing car overall in the heat here which is an added bonus

It does help

It seems the heat capacity of the system is unchanged which doesn’t surprise me as that seems to depend mostly on the inter cooler itself, but nice to see the higher cooling efficiency dissipates heat more quickly.

 

[Darth]

Ok so the CSF heat exchanger is on.

Ambient temps and weather conditions have been very unstable lately (high humidty and high temps)

Tried to compare the closest runs possible since I did not have a lot of meth only pulls and wanted meth against meth + heat exchanger

Meth only
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 52c
End IAT 58c

Meth + Heat exchanger
4th gear pull start @ 3.5K - 6.5K
Start IAT 51c
End IAT 57c

After comparing a few pulls I did not notice any reduction in overall IAT just like @Twisted Tuning mentioned however, IAT temp drop between runs is much faster after letting off and cruising. It is much better in recovery now

This translates into a more consistent performing car overall in the heat here which is an added bonus

It does help

Thanks for the feedback!

Do you have similar data without meth?

 

[a90moe]

It seems the heat capacity of the system is unchanged which doesn’t surprise me as that seems to depend mostly on the inter cooler itself, but nice to see the higher cooling efficiency dissipates heat more quickly.

Yes car feels healthier after a pull and it does make a huge difference with hot climates

Now waiting for an upgraded intake manifold and will probably add a Koyorad's aux radiators

Journey continues

 

[a90moe]

Thanks for the feedback!

Do you have similar data without meth?

Will add an off switch and do pulls later on

 

[kona61]

Yes car feels healthier after a pull and it does make a huge difference with hot climates

Now waiting for an upgraded intake manifold and will probably add a Koyorad's aux radiators

Journey continues

keep and eye out for the new ETS manifold looks pretty wild to me.

 

[a90moe]

keep and eye out for the new ETS manifold looks pretty wild to me.

That's exactly what I have in sight esp the direct meth port