Formula 1 Talk

[Dannyvandelft]

Is it me or does Sky, DTS, F1 “official” publication, and others, predominately favor the Brits, or other personal favs? I sense a bias with the majority of commentators & publications. I’d love to root for the American driver and team. But they suck.

Has Red Bull always been this revered and/or hated?

All those publications you mentioned are British, so they're all up Lewis' butthole. You are spot on about the bias.

it's not redbull in my opinion. it's max. recent rise of hatred of him rose because how he treats perez, his team mate. for example, last year, perez gave up his position to max to help max. but when max already had won the championship and perez needed points to secure 2nd place, max did not yield. I always did not like how he drove anyway so that incident did not surprised me.

Ah the usual drivel.... Red Bull was hated during the Vettel times too, but that was before your time.
Max treated Perez that way because of him intentionally crashing in Monaco qualifying. But as usual you twist things to fit your anti-Max narrative.
Now I'm not saying Max was right to do that, but that's WHY he did it.

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[gixxersixxerman]

I assumed as much. And love extremes/sarcasm to drive thought. Question is, why is Red Bull so far ahead of the rest? Everyone can see the car, FIA goes over them with a fine tooth comb, Merc still has Hamilton, Aston Martin is pouring money into sources outside of F1. So what gives?

Great convo from all y’all. I’m learning more here than any magazine or website

2 things, first one and biggest is they have Adrian Newey. He is an aerodynamicist that every team on the grid would love to have and RB have him. Second is Max, he has a car built for him ( as he should he runs circles around Perez) and he is just starting the peak of his career. I will not be surprised if he wins every drivers championship up to 2025. And then after that it will be who ever gets the next rules package down will dominate. F1 has always and will always be like this.

 

[MKVDevo]

2023 is not an outlier, it's the norm. The winning car can literally start from pit lane and will still win or at least podium. If they start pole they get out of DRS range within 2-3 laps are leading by a full pit stop in 20 laps.

This isn't racing.

F1 is auto racing's equivalent of Pro Wrestling. Give it back to the Europeans.

F1 is not the only motorsport where qualifying on the pole is a huge advantage. Late model/sprint car handicap racing is dead as everything is time trials now. If you watch auto racing and expect a lot of action up front, you will be disappointed more often than not. You have to watch/root for the action through the field. I love hard charger/most overtakes going through traffic. From a gambling perspective it's better to bet on too.

 

[RWhiz]

Is it me or does Sky, DTS, F1 “official” publication, and others, predominately favor the Brits, or other personal favs? I sense a bias with the majority of commentators & publications. I’d love to root for the American driver and team. But they suck.

Has Red Bull always been this revered and/or hated?

Yup, it’s a British based sport, listening to David Coultard gush on George Russell last week was getting hard to watch?. They gush on Lewis George and oh lord if McLaren get their poop together they’ll gush on both Lando and the team…

 

[Dannyvandelft]

2 things, first one and biggest is they have Adrian Newey. He is an aerodynamicist that every team on the grid would love to have and RB have him. Second is Max, he has a car built for him ( as he should he runs circles around Perez) and he is just starting the peak of his career. I will not be surprised if he wins every drivers championship up to 2025. And then after that it will be who ever gets the next rules package down will dominate. F1 has always and will always be like this.

Exactly. It's a team sport, and the driver is only a part of that team. The design of the car, the quick pit stops, the strategy (as Ferrari is showing) and the driver have to all come together to become the best.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Exactly. It's a team sport, and the driver is only a part of that team. The design of the car, the quick pit stops, the strategy (as Ferrari is showing) and the driver have to all come together to become the best.

Love that part of it too. My wife was freaking out when (can’t remember the team) took 2x the time to pit. Of course that can totally ruin your position. I‘m amazed what a fine oiled machine these guys are in the paddock. Incredible teamwork indeed. It’ll be interesting to see who can come in 2nd & 3rd this year. Really digging these races!

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Love that part of it too. My wife was freaking out when (can’t remember the team) took 2x the time to pit. Of course that can totally ruin your position. I‘m amazed what a fine oiled machine these guys are in the paddock. Incredible teamwork indeed. It’ll be interesting to see who can come in 2nd & 3rd this year. Really digging these races!

Yup exactly. Take last race. Mercedes took 3 seconds to pit, Red Bull did it in 2.2 seconds. That's 8 tenths gained. That can be 3 laps of racing trying to catch someone, or the difference between exiting behind, or in front of someone.
With refueling it was even better, because some cars started heavy, others light, and you never knew until the first pit stops who was which. You started with your qualifying fuel load, so Schumacher for instance could be qualifying 4th, only to find out later he had double the fuel load and could stay out much longer. Pit stops lasted around 5-7 seconds.

 

[romanLegion9574]

Has Red Bull always been this revered and/or hated?

It gets a lot of hate in multiple sports. Because of the massive success of the energy drink, they've been able to buy and grow teams from amateurs/minnows to top tier teams in multiple sports very quickly (German soccer has RB Leipzig -- Red Bull stretched the rules a bit to get this soccer team from the 5th division to near top of the table of the 1st division in just 7 years where there's a lot of rules on how spending and club ownership should work).

Not everyone is a fan since the quick ascendance to the best seems like buying the way to the top rather than building to it.

 

[FLtrackdays]

It gets a lot of hate in multiple sports. Because of the massive success of the energy drink, they've been able to buy and grow teams from amateurs/minnows to top tier teams in multiple sports very quickly (German soccer has RB Leipzig -- Red Bull stretched the rules a bit to get this soccer team from the 5th division to near top of the table of the 1st division in just 7 years where there's a lot of rules on how spending and club ownership should work).

Not everyone is a fan since the quick ascendance to the best seems like buying the way to the top rather than building to it.

Gotcha! Mercedes was dominate for so long, it just seemed blah (from the outside). The Netflix series helped spark our interest. Now that we’re all in, it’s obviously much better following each race. While not true, it appeared to us that Red Bull was taking down the big bully (spender) Mercedes.

So now that we’re following it closer, I have respect for all these teams. It takes a lot to put this kind of 2 hour race together. My wife, coming from the Spice Girl era, loves Christian & his wife. I know it has nothing to do with racing, but DTS is attracting a bigger audience they didn’t have before. Now that she is actually watching races as well, it’s pretty easy to tell Max has what it takes. If we ever go to a live race, she’ll be holding a giant Max head for sure, lol.

Of course it takes an entire team to win. Alonzo & Lewis are the only other two that appear to have Max’s level of consistency. Hence the constructors championship points seem to be spot on. Mercedes having the edge with better drivers, George and Lewis. Stroll, ouch… he is nowhere near Alonzo’s consistency. Thus holding Aston Martin back from additional points to be properly fighting for 2nd place.

Sound about right?

 

[Dannyvandelft]

Not everyone is a fan since the quick ascendance to the best seems like buying the way to the top rather than building to it.

Funny thing is, that's exactly what Mercedes did. Bought a Championship winning team (Brawn) and bought Ross Brawn with it, added in Michael Schumacher who both were instrumental in bringing back Ferrari to the front. And as soon as the work was done, kicked them both to the curb.
Whereas Red Bull bought a midfield team, I think it was Jaguar, and built it from the ground up.

Gotcha! Mercedes was dominate for so long, it just seemed blah (from the outside). The Netflix series helped spark our interest. Now that we’re all in, it’s obviously much better following each race. While not true, it appeared to us that Red Bull was taking down the big bully (spender) Mercedes.

So now that we’re following it closer, I have respect for all these teams. It takes a lot to put this kind of 2 hour race together. My wife, coming from the Spice Girl era, loves Christian & his wife. I know it has nothing to do with racing, but DTS is attracting a bigger audience they didn’t have before. Now that she is actually watching races as well, it’s pretty easy to tell Max has what it takes. If we ever go to a live race, she’ll be holding a giant Max head for sure, lol.

Of course it takes an entire team to win. Alonzo & Lewis are the only other two that appear to have Max’s level of consistency. Hence the constructors championship points seem to be spot on. Mercedes having the edge with better drivers, George and Lewis. Stroll, ouch… he is nowhere near Alonzo’s consistency. Thus holding Aston Martin back from additional points to be properly fighting for 2nd place.

Sound about right?

That's exactly what Red Bull did. Mercedes was "the big bully" and out spent everyone, especially early in development when they got the new engine specs before anyone else. That's why it took so long to beat them. Because everyone had to catch up.
And that's the difference in mentality. Red Bull fought like hell to catch up, Mercedes wants to have the regulations changed to slow down Red Bull. Bullshit calls like last year's ride height change for "safety" just to name one of them. Luckily it backfired.

 

[romanLegion9574]

Funny thing is, that's exactly what Mercedes did. Bought a Championship winning team (Brawn) and bought Ross Brawn with it, added in Michael Schumacher who both were instrumental in bringing back Ferrari to the front. And as soon as the work was done, kicked them both to the curb.
Whereas Red Bull bought a midfield team, I think it was Jaguar, and built it from the ground up.

To be fair, the Brawn team bought out the midfield Honda team for 1 pound after Honda left due to the 2008 economic crisis, and replaced the Honda engine with a Mercedes engine which worked as a 1-season wonder, along with the double diffuser. The chassis was also being developed much earlier than other teams because Honda had given up on the 2008 season early.

Lastly, Mercedes was ending their McLaren partnership and still did want to be in the sport, so on a high level, the money from selling their McLaren stake went into buying the Brawn team. It still took them 4 years from joining to become successful, similar to Red Bull's 5 years.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

To be fair, the Brawn team bought out the midfield Honda team for 1 pound after Honda left due to the 2008 economic crisis, and replaced the Honda engine with a Mercedes engine which worked as a 1-season wonder, along with the double diffuser. The chassis was also being developed much earlier than other teams because Honda had given up on the 2008 season early.

Lastly, Mercedes was ending their McLaren partnership and still did want to be in the sport, so on a high level, the money from selling their McLaren stake went into buying the Brawn team. It still took them 4 years from joining to become successful, similar to Red Bull's 5 years.

Yeah exactly. Honda has the best timing ? every time they decide to leave, the team wins the Championship.

 

[J29DB03]

Yeah exactly. Honda has the best timing ? every time they decide to leave, the team wins the Championship.

Welp, Aston Martin better win the championship fast.

 

[RWhiz]

Hence the hate for Red Bull I suppose? Because they are winning, better & too far ahead. Screw you Red Bull! Now I could be a journalist

You might not believe this if you just got into F1 but back in the day Sebastian Vettle wasn't well liked at Red Bull either. He won 4 straight WDCs with a far dominate car and there was the perception anyway that they mistreated his very popular teammate Mark Weber.

Mark stated in his book that Helmet Marko would prefer a 1 car team, and that might lead to the notion or reality that the #2 driver at Red Bull gets the short end of the stick.

 

[johnnyskids]

I think Red Bull is a great team, full of great and talented people. I just personally am not a fan of Max, Christian, or Helmet. But that’s 3 people out of hundreds that go into that team. I think Perez is a fantastic driver and the best teammate on the grid, but definitely not as good of a driver as Max.

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