Formula 1 Talk

[FLtrackdays]

I think we might actually see more moments of red mist. The car's not dominant, so he has to go racing, and it seems like Oscar (and maybe George) are willing to use his playbook against him, which he doesn't like.

As good as Max is, his decision making gets very questionable once he's angry. Monza 2021 and Hungary 2024 come to mind where a bad pit stop and bad strategy put him behind Lewis, and both times he made reckless moves, ending both their races in Monza, and almost flipping the car in Hungary.

Totally agree. There was a lot of red mist accumulating there.

Max should have been mad at the team for not letting him stay out there on his already warmed up soft tires. That was such a slap in the face after he (and the team) worked so hard to stay up there fighting for possible 2nd position or maintaining 3rd.


The build up: 1) put him on new hards 2) that initial snap on the restart 3) the luv tap from Charles, solidifying I got ya beat 4) the George tap and Max forced to run off to keep position 5) his stupid team not seeing any of that and telling him to give up position to George and settle for 5th position. 6) Max’s stupid move of frustration into George. It wasn’t right by any means. But wow… if you look at it from a RB fan position or even Max’s, it was absolutely insane what they did.

Best meta analysis imo…. I love these guys! Especially the guy with the black Bet MGM cap ?. So well said from both sides of the coin.

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[tracer bullet]

... it seems like Oscar (and maybe George) are willing to use his playbook against him, which he doesn't like.

How so?

I'm a casual F1 follower, so I'm genuinely curious, this isn't one of those posts where I disagree with you but won't say so.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Max should have been mad at the team for not letting him stay out there on his already warmed up soft tires. That was such a slap in the face after he (and the team) worked so hard to stay up there fighting for possible 2nd position or maintaining 3rd.

There is always a would've could've should've in racing. In 2021 Mercedes should've brought Lewis in. RB would've most likely stayed out and if it finished under caution everyone would've said Mercedes pulled off the biggest blunder in motorsports pulling in a car that the race would've finished under caution, or if it would've went green, history would've showed that FIA made sure Lewis won his 8th by letting a race that by rules should've finished under caution go green. OR....... RB would've pitted Max and we would've had an epic showdown for the last lap, no one knows. That's the thing with would've should've couldv'es.

In this case, if they left Max out, he would've been a roadblock on old tires and who knows what would've happened, maybe the same thing, maybe the "red mist" would've been worse. the best play at that time was new rubber, unfortunately all they had was hards. I personally don't think they made a bad call, or that Max should've been mad at them.

Max has always had a red mist, he also cries like a baby when things don't go his way. (they all do, but for some reason it's always said Max is just telling it how it is not crying) Charles came over but overhead shots show max driving him into the marbles. And the stewards reported that. That incident was on both but was a prime example of Max not giving an inch but wanting 12 in return. Regardless, love him or hate him, he will go down as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever.

 

[Gabe]

So much drama on the track and here.

Who remembers 2018 Sebastian Vettel crashing into Hamilton on what was going to be the turnaround point for the championship that year.

I think the pressure got the best of him that season.

Watching Verstappen losing it last Sunday reminded me of that.

despite my wife hating on him every day, I think that Verstappen is truly gifted, once I a generation driver. But he really fell to pressure last Sunday .

 

[Gabe]

Best of the weekend was Charles bringing back “Just an inchident” on the interview. When the journalist asked him
About his contact with Verstappen.

nothing can top that moment ?

 

[johnnyskids]

There is always a would've could've should've in racing. In 2021 Mercedes should've brought Lewis in. RB would've most likely stayed out and if it finished under caution everyone would've said Mercedes pulled off the biggest blunder in motorsports pulling in a car that the race would've finished under caution, or if it would've went green, history would've showed that FIA made sure Lewis won his 8th by letting a race that by rules should've finished under caution go green. OR....... RB would've pitted Max and we would've had an epic showdown for the last lap, no one knows. That's the thing with would've should've couldv'es.

In this case, if they left Max out, he would've been a roadblock on old tires and who knows what would've happened, maybe the same thing, maybe the "red mist" would've been worse. the best play at that time was new rubber, unfortunately all they had was hards. I personally don't think they made a bad call, or that Max should've been mad at them.

Max has always had a red mist, he also cries like a baby when things don't go his way. (they all do, but for some reason it's always said Max is just telling it how it is not crying) Charles came over but overhead shots show max driving him into the marbles. And the stewards reported that. That incident was on both but was a prime example of Max not giving an inch but wanting 12 in return. Regardless, love him or hate him, he will go down as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever.

Just to expand on the whole should Max have pitted for new hards or not. One thing people have to understand, they made that decision without knowing if McLaren, Ferrari, or Mercedes would pit, nor did they know how long the safety car would last. Let's say that McLaren chose to stay out to maintain their position, new hards against old softs could have meant a tire advantage for Max over the drivers ahead of him.

 

[johnnyskids]

So much drama on the track and here.

Who remembers 2018 Sebastian Vettel crashing into Hamilton on what was going to be the turnaround point for the championship that year.

I think the pressure got the best of him that season.

Watching Verstappen losing it last Sunday reminded me of that.

despite my wife hating on him every day, I think that Verstappen is truly gifted, once I a generation driver. But he really fell to pressure last Sunday .

I don't think anyone can deny that Max is a special talent, and I don't see much of anyone on here stating that he isn't.

I just don't believe in the whole narrative that "he's the best to have ever drove in F1", or that "with the same car he can beat anyone on the grid", etc. He's one of the best, and I'd say he's a championship away from me putting him in the top 4-5 all time, but he's already cemented his HOF career in my mind regardless of if he drives another race or not.

 

[johnnyskids]

Best of the weekend was Charles bringing back “Just an inchident” on the interview. When the journalist asked him
About his contact with Verstappen.

nothing can top that moment ?

I think the moment in the cool down room when Lando stated that he did the same move as Max on Charles also...but in the Mario Kart game, that was the quote of the day for me.

 

[FLtrackdays]

There is always a would've could've should've in racing. In 2021 Mercedes should've brought Lewis in. RB would've most likely stayed out and if it finished under caution everyone would've said Mercedes pulled off the biggest blunder in motorsports pulling in a car that the race would've finished under caution, or if it would've went green, history would've showed that FIA made sure Lewis won his 8th by letting a race that by rules should've finished under caution go green. OR....... RB would've pitted Max and we would've had an epic showdown for the last lap, no one knows. That's the thing with would've should've couldv'es.

In this case, if they left Max out, he would've been a roadblock on old tires and who knows what would've happened, maybe the same thing, maybe the "red mist" would've been worse. the best play at that time was new rubber, unfortunately all they had was hards. I personally don't think they made a bad call, or that Max should've been mad at them.

Max has always had a red mist, he also cries like a baby when things don't go his way. (they all do, but for some reason it's always said Max is just telling it how it is not crying) Charles came over but overhead shots show max driving him into the marbles. And the stewards reported that. That incident was on both but was a prime example of Max not giving an inch but wanting 12 in return. Regardless, love him or hate him, he will go down as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever.

Good points! He ain’t emotionally perfect on track, that’s for sure, lol. Omitting the tire choice, let him keep his position was my biggest thought and concern. When you’ve been fighting that hard (all the guys) and that much happens so quickly, let it be. Alex was loosing his shit as well. All these guys feel they are right when out there using every bit of adrenaline they got on track. Me personally, I think it was a bad call to ask him to give that position back to George. That’s all. Max was still wrong. But I don’t think it came out of the blue. There was quite the build up.

Some are now saying Toto is back at it trying to get Max. Would he take JB with him? Would Mercedes give him the benefit of the doubt that Toto is claiming? Who knows…

Anyone seen this DTS bias? Thoughts?

 

[Ron L]

How so?

I'm a casual F1 follower, so I'm genuinely curious, this isn't one of those posts where I disagree with you but won't say so.

Max never gives an inch to any other driver, and he feels that's the way F1 should be. But when anybody else fails to give him room (after all, he is the current driving champion) he gets all pissy and calls in in over the radio that 'so and so' cut him off, or bumped into him... or whatever.

Max knows the rules inside out and he pushes to the limit of those rules all the time, and sometimes a little over the limit. But when somebody does even the slightest thing to him, he complains that they should be penalized. The bump between Max and Charles was nothing. It had no effect on either car. Yet he bitched to the team over the radio several times. Even Nico Rosberg, an ex champion driver doing color commentary in the booth said he needs to get over it and drive the car!

 

[johnnyskids]

Good points! He ain’t emotionally perfect on track, that’s for sure, lol. Omitting the tire choice, let him keep his position was my biggest thought and concern. When you’ve been fighting that hard (all the guys) and that much happens so quickly, let it be. Alex was loosing his shit as well. All these guys feel they are right when out there using every bit of adrenaline they got on track. Me personally, I think it was a bad call to ask him to give that position back to George. That’s all. Max was still wrong. But I don’t think it came out of the blue. There was quite the build up.

Some are now saying Toto is back at it trying to get Max. Would he take JB with him? Would Mercedes give him the benefit of the doubt that Toto is claiming? Who knows…

Anyone seen this DTS bias? Thoughts?

Of course Toto would want to get Max, wouldn't every team be interested? He's one of the best drivers on the grid, and you can't question his passion to win.

DTS bias, so I have watched all the DTS series and I watched that youtube clip. So the two things that I'd say is that it's meant for entertainment and of course they over dramatize things, heck commentators over dramatize things during races or after races, it's part of their jobs to entertain and build interest. The other thing is that bias will always be present in any type of documentary, not just because of building characters (both good and bad) but just human nature to favor one storyline, rival, team, etc.

DTS is FAR from perfect, it certainly shouldn't be taken as the true reflection of what is happening on track or behind closed doors. But I will say that there is a lot of good that has come out of DTS, just with building the sport and expanding the viewership in key markets is massive enough, but I think it really does a good job of highlighting the struggles that teams and drivers face both on the track and off the track. That has brought a bit of the human struggle into it and made people buy into teams and characters.

So in summary, is there DTS bias, heck yes there is. But does it succeed in entertaining the viewer and helping to recruit new fans and inform them along the way, I'd say it's a pretty big success.

 

[FLtrackdays]

Max never gives an inch to any other driver, and he feels that's the way F1 should be. But when anybody else fails to give him room (after all, he is the current driving champion) he gets all pissy and calls in in over the radio that 'so and so' cut him off, or bumped into him... or whatever.

Max knows the rules inside out and he pushes to the limit of those rules all the time, and sometimes a little over the limit. But when somebody does even the slightest thing to him, he complains that they should be penalized. The bump between Max and Charles was nothing. It had no effect on either car. Yet he bitched to the team over the radio several times. Even Nico Rosberg, an ex champion driver doing color commentary in the booth said he needs to get over it and drive the car!

True! He is quite passionate when in the heat of the moment. Again, I was surprised to hear them play Alex’s really pissy radio messages this past race. That short video above about DTS address some of that. Shows how the media likes to play some drivers radio calls more often when in bad light & others less often when not in their best interest. I think they all do that. Oscar probably the least. But who knows what they’re sharing and not. George seems to calls foul all the time (and gives weather reports before even the team sees, ?).

It’s media and television that has their minds made up. Like most of us. I like most of the past/previous racers comments the most. They seem to understand it all a lot more & don’t get all wrapped up in the drama as much as the regular “hosts”.

I hope he rebounds and still gives it all this next race. Minus turning into people ?. He can bitch in the radio all he wants however. It doesn’t bother me. Unless it’s George, hahahaha…. he seems whiney about it. I dunno ?‍ guess we’re all different in likes and perceptions. But do like that we all enjoy racing & F1. It really is fun as ? to watch ??

 

[RWhiz]

All racers, and for that matter all or most individual sports athletes can be extremely coarse when compared to the general public. I certainly was when racing MX, my son is with his karting. Lewis and Charles are cross with their engineers, George and Lando are tattletales, Stroll blew up at his team, and Max can be douch-y when things don't go his way, it's just the nature of the game in all types of racing.

Even Seb with his little finger gesture wasn't well liked when he was winning at Red Bull, and JPM was more outspoken than any of today's drivers so it's nothing new.

Anyway it's kinda almost a non-issue how a driver speaks or responds to media, they're all similar. JMHO.

 

[romanLegion9574]

How so?

I'm a casual F1 follower, so I'm genuinely curious, this isn't one of those posts where I disagree with you but won't say so.

Max never gives an inch to any other driver, and he feels that's the way F1 should be. But when anybody else fails to give him room (after all, he is the current driving champion) he gets all pissy and calls in in over the radio that 'so and so' cut him off, or bumped into him... or whatever.

Max knows the rules inside out and he pushes to the limit of those rules all the time, and sometimes a little over the limit. But when somebody does even the slightest thing to him, he complains that they should be penalized. The bump between Max and Charles was nothing. It had no effect on either car. Yet he bitched to the team over the radio several times. Even Nico Rosberg, an ex champion driver doing color commentary in the booth said he needs to get over it and drive the car!

Ron captures it well -- Max drives to all the technicalities of the rulebook and utilizes gray areas to his favor, but hates it when others do the same.

With respect to the "inchident" with Charles, Charles said that Max was trying to get Charles to pick up rubber, which he was avoiding. Hard racing, but definitely not "ramming" like Max claimed, and nowhere near a penalty. And it was pretty clear Max was so focused on that that he left the door wide open for George to take the inside for turn 1.

Also, Hungary 2024 was a good example of Max getting mad and then losing the plot a bit. On the start, he was whining about having to give a place back after having passed off track because he felt one of the McLarens opened the wheel too much, as if he doesn't do the same thing to everyone else. Then he was angry at the strategy and couldn't pass Lewis, and proceeded to launch a desperate divebomb up the inside of turn 1 which launched his car in the air and cost him a place. He tried to claim Lewis moved under braking, but his race engineer practically told him it was his fault and he was being childish for trying to blame Lewis.

 

[BrettMRC]

Canadian GP this weekend, suspect it will be a McLaren 1-2 with George in 3rd and Max trying not to get any extra points on his licence!

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