Mazda drops all RWD inline-6 Mazda 6 sedan and RWD inline-6 coupe plans

KahnBB6

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Very disappointing news from Mazda. They develop a great new RWD-based RWD/AWD platform, great new inline-six and inline-four hybrid RWD engine architectures capable of meeting all their near future product needs.... but they will only go forward with more crossovers and SUVs.

The Miata, Mazda3 manual and turbo hatchbacks and the Mazda6 turbo sedan (and why is the AWD version missing in action?) are their only compelling vehicles.

Hopefully the Miata will be given a new generation but this will be a pretty boring lineup for a brand that is aiming to go upscale in short order.

It also probably kills whatever co-developed vehicles Gazoo Racing and Mazda may have been envisioning sharing the now canned Mazda6 RWD inline-six sedan and coupe.

Not to mention... as difficult as it would have been for them, this was the last window of time they had to be able to sell whatever modernized and cleaned up version of the Wankel rotary would have been powering a flagship RWD coupe. By the time they decide to revisit that idea again it will no longer be possible. This was the very last window of opportunity for them to have been able to develop and sell it for a few years.

I think we all want them to do well financially but this is very sad for Mazda and for all that squandered potential.

I really hope they keep the Miata alive.

https://www.motor1.com/news/575077/mazda6-rwd-not-happening/

https://jalopnik.com/that-rear-wheel-drive-mazda-6-successor-that-sounded-to-1848685993
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AutoDelight

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Yeah.. i cried a little when i saw the news. Was hoping for the rwd 6 myself. Hopefully in a few years after some of the SUV's come out, they will go back to this.
 

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Damn, I'm guessing the engine didn't pass emissions?
 
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KahnBB6

KahnBB6

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Damn, I'm guessing the engine didn't pass emissions?
Oh no. I think their new engine family will easily pass emissions standards comfortably for several years. I don't think that's the problem at all.

I think this is much more likely tied to Mazda shrewdly deciding that since they're still a relatively small automaker, and since they still have not forgotten their embarrassing experience with *almost* launching their "Amati" luxury brand in the early 1990's only to pull the plug at the last minute... the company brass has, more than likely, decided to take an extremely conservative approach to their new push into selling more prestigious upmarket cars into luxury territory.

Because they, like all other automakers out there, are convinced that only crossovers and SUVs and trucks sell while virtually everything else (sedans, two-door coupes, three-door hatchbacks, convertibles, and sportscars that aren't of the Lambo/Porsche/Ferrari/hypercar/etc. variety) "just don't sell and aren't worth the risk to us to develop and produce".

I'm disappointed in their decision. I hope they change their minds in the future. As far as I'm concerned, a RWD or RWD-based sedan or coupe = "luxury". IMO a crossover or an SUV (apart from something like a Euro-spec G-Wagen with more options than the U.S. gets), does not. Clearly Mazda's bean counters see it differently.

The Miata at least is getting their attention to design a new generation.
 
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KahnBB6

KahnBB6

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Talk about pouring a bucket of salt into the wound. Yeesh, Mazda. They did say some months ago already that they didn't want to bring back MazdaSpeed but this just feels like they're doing their best to kill any hopes of any fun future Mazdas apart from (hopefully) continued work on the Miata.

https://www.motor1.com/news/576691/mazda-wont-bring-back-mazdaspeed/

"With the launch of the Mazda CX-60, many people thought the brand was preparing for a full attack on the premium segment with upcoming rear-wheel-drive models and a full-blown performance division. The launch of an RWD Mazda6 sedan was officially ruled out earlier this month and it seems that the chances of seeing a resurrected Mazdaspeed family are very slim, too.

A Mazda spokesman for Australia recently spoke with the local edition of WhichCarand virtually confirmed there are no plans for bringing back the MPS badge. The Japanese manufacturer believes its current and upcoming models are so good and dynamic that there’s basically no room for a full-blown performance division. Plus, the projected sales volumes are very limited and won’t create a viable business case.

“It’d be nice, but the volume realistically would be pretty small for it,” Alastair Doak, Mazda Australia’s marketing manager, told the online publication. “We have a GT spec and SP GTs – we think our cars ride and handle pretty well anyway, and I think we back ourselves in with the look of those kind of vehicles.”

Rumors have been circulating the internet for years about a potential Mazda3 MPS. It was rumored to receive a more powerful turbocharged engine and an all-wheel-drive, though nothing if this ever materialized. The announcement about the new RWD platform of the Zoom-Zoom company fueled speculation again, but back in 2020, Mazda said it has no plans to bring back the MPS as it moves into premium space.

The first MPS model was launched in 2007 in the form of the Mazdaspeed3 with a 2.3-liter turbocharged engine, mated to a six-speed manual gearbox. That engine was delivering 255 horsepower (190 kilowatts), sent to the front wheels. The car was famous for its lack of traction but is still regarded as one of the most hardcore hot hatches of the early 2000s."
 
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XtremeMaC

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I know this is mostly because people have been moving towards SUVs, but we see cuts everywhere nowadays thanks to emissions, EV popularity, etc..
We've to stop blaming cars for emissions and direct attention to other venues.
Kids in the future won't have any fun cars to look forward. It'll be like in the movies where kids will put grandpa's 80s Mustang posters on their walls to commemorate the good old days, but be beamed up by Scottie.
This EV future is shit. People will stop having garages working on their cars. No tuning. No hobbies. Spirals down from there. Bleak....
 
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KahnBB6

KahnBB6

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I know this is mostly because people have been moving towards SUVs, but we see cuts everywhere nowadays thanks to emissions, EV popularity, etc..
We've to stop blaming cars for emissions and direct attention to other venues.
Kids in the future won't have any fun cars to look forward. It'll be like in the movies where kids will put grandpa's 80s Mustang posters on their walls to commemorate the good old days, but be beamed up by Scottie.
This EV future is shit. People will stop having garages working on their cars. No tuning. No hobbies. Spirals down from there. Bleak....
At current time we are still getting some nice cars (GR Corolla anyone?) and there are many nice cars in circulation.

I'm not going to get into a debate over car emissions and needing to get away from that globally but the electrification shift is inevitable now. However I don't see it as needing to be a shitty future.

I chiefly blame the asinine SUV and crossover craze. Those abominations have absolutely ruined the auto industry. I can't stand them and and will never buy any of them unless we're talking Euro/military G-Wagen, vintage Defender, Bronco, Ineos Grenaider, Bollinger truck, FJ70 or anything else in that extremely niche category of off-roaders.

We'll have hybrid gas-electric engines for several more years with a mix of EVs and there will be interesting performance entrants using those powertrains.

But the things that are currently in the way of truly fun to drive EVs are:

-the SUV/crossover craze killing off all the fun and interesting body styles of vehicles.
-the limitations and issues ever present in current lithium-ion battery technology.
-the extremely annoying trend of making vehicle interiors and common function controls dominated by iPad-like touchscreens.
-automakers seeing dollar signs in the form of monthly subscriptions for already built in features and capabilities the cars are shipped with from the factory
-most automakers doing all they can to fight against Right To Repair legislation in Apple-like and Tesla-like fashion which is a much bigger issue with EVs than it is with conventional combustion vehicles.

On the battery front, look to solid-state designs that will begin to show up around 2025-2026. Especially those from Quantumscape (with VW & Porsche) and Toyota-Panasonic (whatever GR and Lexus are experimenting with). Especially solid state battery designs using a sodium-ion variant electrolyte.

Sound, revs and gear changes will always be missed. I love the way my 2JZ sounds and I loved the sound of the H22A Honda and old Ford 302 V8 I once owned.

But I do think there is a different way of expressing this with EVs... and not with fake sound generators. No doubt natural gear noise and amplified RF frequencies from an electric motor and/or inverter will likely irk the same people who complain a lot about even the most mildly audible combustion sportscar exhausts.

It is possible to build fun and *engaging* EVs even if the sounds and feel are different. But a silly party trick 2.0 second 0-60 time in a straight line in a 5,000lb Tesla sedan with a touchscreen growing from the dashboard isn't it.

Mazda could, right now, build another engaging sporty car besides the Miata. And down the road Mazda of all companies does know how to make very sporty and engaging performance oriented cars that would be EV's. But I cannot see how more SUVs and crossovers embody their history of fun vehicles... or even luxury.

To me, crossovers and SUVs are not a compelling representation of luxury. Not when sedans, coupes, convertibles are far more beautiful.

We will get there overall but in the EV era, mark my words: the shape, style, suspension design, handling, feel and everything contributing in concert to what makes cars fun to drive and engaging (including whatever authentic sounds can be emphasized) will be more important than whatever the 0-60 acceleration time will be.

And as battery technology finally improves well beyond the disappointing technology we have right now getting a bit more back to lighter weight (than current EV) designs will also be part of that.

There is also the maybe-viable-but-we'll-see limited application of Porsche-Bosch's "E-Fuel" (Hydrogen combined with carbon captured from the air) for conventional combustion engines and Ford, Toyota, Yamaha, Mazda, Kawasaki, and Subaru's interest in pure hydrogen internal combustion engines. The former is currently $40/gal today. The latter will probably be more viable in time as the heavy commercial sectors begin to require increased hydrogen production and an H2 refueling infrastructure.

We're in a point of transition right now before the new technology improves dramatically.

But it's the crossover/SUV fad and the need to curtail automaker efforts from going the full Apple/Tesla route of denying customer modification or independent repair/diagnosis, denying customer direct purchases of factory parts, or locking out already built in features hidden behind a firmware or software paywall that are the real evils getting in the way.
 

XtremeMaC

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I crammed up my thoughts into few sentences but yeah, totally agree with you there...
Not now, but once the switch happens in 2025-30 as many OEMs target, then it'll be mostly EVs... Hope hybrids continue to soldier on.

I suppose the fun from driving factor maybe dying for people and perhaps that's another reason in addition to OEMs not wanting to spend the big bucks for less sales...besides the truck/suv move.

Maybe in the future, companies like Lotus and others that specialize in ICE sports cars can get exceptions for emission or whatever..

Even if batteries in the future are lighter and have improved vehicle dynamics, it'll only improve things tad bit. There'll be more fake sounds inside and out.
F1 will be all electric, no different than watching your buddies play PS5 on mute. And again, you'll have zero tools at home to work on your car.. many jobs lost..

Sorry, I'm pessimistic lately. I'm in the automotive industry and already super sick n tired of chip shortage and other issues always causing ripple effect in auto ind and thinking ahead I see EVs taking away hobbies and jobs. Surely jobs will migrate into other things but what are we gonna do, debate which oil to put in asynchronous AC motor. Wrap more coils around. Review which artificial sound is better..

Anyhow, Mazda had to get on board. They're a small company. They have to make ends meet.
When you put your sales figures on bar chart vs expenditure, the path is clear. Sedans dying. EVs have less parts, less complexity supply chain pov. Joint venture with some battery supplier. Outsource things... It's still not profitable but getting there.
Anyhow, I'll sod off..
 

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Before I traded in my 2020 Mazda 6 GT-Reserve, I was kinda looking forward to the "new" 6 when it came out. I was always concerned that Mazda was making a huge mistake trying to lure in Audi and other luxury buyers with something cheaper. Now their cars/SUV's are creeping up in price.

I knew the days of Mazda making fun to drive cars were over when I traded in my 19 Miata GT for the 2021 Accord Touring. I had a soft spot in my heart for Mazda but no faith in their leadership anymore. I think the Miata might be the only car they build moving forward as they focus on SUV like everyone else. I can see them killing off the 3 soon, as it's not selling well because it's too overpriced.
 
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KahnBB6

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There's some good news at least concerning the MX-5 Miata:

https://www.motor1.com/news/578690/mazda-mx5-keep-gas-engine-rwd/

While virtually all automakers are downsizing on the road to embracing EVs, Mazda is doing the exact opposite. It recently announced a new rear-wheel-drive platform ushering in a pair of inline-six gasoline and diesel engines. In addition, it’s among the last car manufacturers to still sell cars with naturally aspirated powertrains. Not only that, but it still sees a future for the oil-burner in some parts of the world.

In the roadster world, the MX-5 is alive and well despite constant pressures from regulators to cut fleet emissions. Autocar spoke with Mazda's head of product development and engineering in Europe, and he reassured fans the Miata will remain a Miata: "It's our brand icon and it is always treated very specially. At the moment, it looks like we will have this car forever, with this size and concept and combustion engine."


He admitted there will come a day when "we will have to electrify it, but we want to keep this pure concept." Joachim Kunz pointed out the MX-5 will not switch to an existing platform used by the other cars and SUVs since that would mean the loss of RWD. He went on to say most of the development work is done at home in Japan as the sporty roadster "is the baby of the headquarters."

While an exact date as to when the ND generation will be replaced was not provided, Kunz suggested it won't happen in the near future: "Having one generation for 10 years is not a problem for us." That's because the MX-5 has a special place in the company's lineup, separate from its mainstream vehicles. His statement indicates the NE model is highly unlikely to come out before 2024 considering the current car was launched in 2014.


When it does eventually arrive, the new MX-5 will largely retain the formula that made it the world's best-selling two-seater sports car. However, a company spokesperson told us back in June 2021 that "Mazda is seeking to electrify the MX-5 Miata in an effort to have all models feature a form of electrification by 2030.” A plug-in hybrid seems unlikely since it will add a lot of weight and create issues with packaging, so our money is on a full hybrid setup or a more probable 48V mild-hybrid system.

Whatever the case may be, the NE-gen model might end up heavier than the current car, which weighs a remarkable 2,182 pounds (990 kilograms) in the JDM-only 990S special edition.
 
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KahnBB6

KahnBB6

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And a last related post. Apparently Mazda is predicting that the upcoming line of new inline six and hybrid four cylinder engines (and one assumes whatever next evolution the engine in the MX-5 Miata will go through) will be their last internal combustion engines.

No mention of the Wankel rotary either after all that work on the 16X prototypes.

https://www.motor1.com/news/579634/mazda-inline-six-last-combustion-engines/

Going against the tide, Mazda is introducing a new family of large combustion engines featuring an inline-six layout. Coming in both gasoline and diesel flavors, these are in direct contradiction to the downsizing recipe we're seeing more of across the industry. It looks as though the Zoom-Zoom company has saved the best for last as the 3.0-liter gasoline and 3.3-liter diesel units will likely be its final internal combustion engines.

Speaking with Automotive News Europe at the CX-60's unveiling, Joachim Kunz, a senior member of the technical development at Mazda's R&D center in Europe said: "This will be most likely be the last generation of internal combustion engines, so we will prepare for the toughest expected target and then adjust using after-treatment solutions."


Subsequent investments will be done in the oil-burner to keep the regulators happy amid increasingly stringent emissions regulations. Mazda is confident the diesel will meet Euro 7 regulations even though these have yet to be finalized. The European Commission is expected to formalize the stricter standard in July, but Euro 7 won't come into effect until later this decade.

Many automakers have already expressed their concerns about how the new standard will make ICE-powered cars more expensive to offset the increased engineering costs necessary to make the engines cleaner. The Japanese brand believes there's still a place in the automotive realm for a six-cylinder. One of the reasons why Mazda decided to go big – especially with a 3.3-liter displacement for the diesel – is to give the engineers a bit of wiggle room:

"Having a 3.3-liter engine means we want to be on the safe side for torque and power." Kunz was talking about how tougher legislation on ICEs usually comes with a drop in horsepower and torque, but having a 3.3-liter unit helps Mazda still offer adequate output while meeting Euro 7 standards.


Details about how powerful the 3.0-liter gasoline engine is going to be have not been disclosed, but we do have the diesel's juicy numbers. The SKYACTIV-D makes 228 horsepower (170 kilowatts) and 500 Newton-meters (369 pound-feet) in standard guise. There's also an e-SKYACTIV-D with mild-hybrid tech to boost output to 251 hp (187 kW) and a meaty 550 Nm (406 lb-ft).

The diesel will be offered by Mazda across Europe, but maybe not in EV heaven Norway. Speaking of the Old Continent, many automakers are gradually removing their oil-burners from The Netherlands, with the latest example being Audi and its once-omnipresent TDIs. Kunz is confident the 3.3-liter diesel will be just as thrifty as a four-pot courtesy of a highly efficient combustion process

The 3.3-liter displacement is interesting considering virtually all other manufacturers selling diesel cars in Europe max out at 3.0. The VW Group's V8 4.0-liter TDI was retired a couple of years ago, and with the diesel's popularity plummeting (-34 percent in 2021), it won't ever come back.
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