Meth, Reflex, and Ecutek

[ope_sry]

For you guys using ecutek, I’m curious how you are controlling your meth injection? Specifically using port injection with motiv reflex/visconti stuff. I’ll be spraying at the charge pipe but wondering about different controlling options and their pros/cons. Currently installed meth kit is JB4 triggered, hoping to keep everything in place and just re-route a couple wires. Can’t find a single piece of info on this.

What you got?

Standalone controller? Wired into reflex controller? Tied into vehicle can-bus? Jb4 box used as standalone controller?

Thanks in advance for any information!

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[KBGT]

How do you want to setup your system?

-Single stage, one pump, one solenoid, no PWM
-Either on or off, 0 or 100%, one output required

-Single stage, one pump, one solenoid, PWM
-PWM so approx 60-100%, one or two outputs required

-Dual stage, one pump, two solenoid/nozzle, no PWM
-Two nozzle selected output percentages, 2 or three outputs required

-Dual stage, one pump, two solenoid/nozzle, PWM
-PWM so approximately 30-100%, 2 or three outputs required

There are other options but that is a basic list. PWM is pulse width modulation aka switching stuff on/off quickly to reduce pump speed or solenoid flow. You can use one solenoid per nozzle or group of nozzles to obtain control of a fraction of the total nozzles, 50% if there are 2 nozzles.

If you already have a motiv reflex plus, there are 4 aux outputs that are programmable via Tuner Pro. They allow 3d mapping of rpm and boost to output %. Of course use a solid state relay as required by the manufacture.

Otherwise there is torqbyte meth controller.

Of course there is JB4, AEM, Snow...

What are you using meth for? Do you have adequate fueling but an aggressive tune that pulls timing because octane is low and you use 100% meth to reduce timing corrections? Do you lack adequate fueling capability and use 100% meth for fuel delivery more so than octane and cooling? Do you just want a little extra cooling and run a tiny amount of 50/50 on an already conservative tune picking up no power?

 

[ope_sry]

Thanks for the great response and the time you put into that. Info in the links helped my overall understanding, didn’t think to read the reflex manual. For simplicity I want 50/50 WMI single stage, 1 pump/solenoid, no pwm. My hope is just retaining my current meth kit (AEM/Burger) to be used simply for controlling IAT’s. I don’t believe I’ll need to rely on meth for fueling (at least I don’t want to). I’m going to be full flex fuel with P2uned G35-1050, Visconti lpfp, eos manifold & 1050cc INJECTORS, target is 750-800whp at higher E% which I think I can achieve without too much fuss. Still in the process off receiving all parts for this build. I know some of these decisions are best made at my tuners recommendation, just don’t want to go into that conversation completely ignorant.

I’m installing everything myself, so I guess the biggest thing I’m searching for right now is a simplified theory of operation, ie:

If I wire the solenoid and pump to a reflex aux input-does that tie into can, and its drive input then configured/selected within ecutek software?

Is it as simple as setting an IAT threshold in ecutek to drive the solenoid on/off? Or would there be a better parameter to trigger meth for this type of application?

Looks like reflex is definitely designed to be meth friendly, in my mind it would be best to have everything controlled by ecutek, I just don’t have a broad understanding of how can, ecutek, Motiv reflex, and any potential aux systems communicate with each other.

Again, don’t want to side step my tuner, genuinely just trying to educate myself and really appreciate the help!

How do you want to setup your system?

-Single stage, one pump, one solenoid, no PWM
-Either on or off, 0 or 100%, one output required

-Single stage, one pump, one solenoid, PWM
-PWM so approx 60-100%, one or two outputs required

-Dual stage, one pump, two solenoid/nozzle, no PWM
-Two nozzle selected output percentages, 2 or three outputs required

-Dual stage, one pump, two solenoid/nozzle, PWM
-PWM so approximately 30-100%, 2 or three outputs required

There are other options but that is a basic list. PWM is pulse width modulation aka switching stuff on/off quickly to reduce pump speed or solenoid flow. You can use one solenoid per nozzle or group of nozzles to obtain control of a fraction of the total nozzles, 50% if there are 2 nozzles.

If you already have a motiv reflex plus, there are 4 aux outputs that are programmable via Tuner Pro. They allow 3d mapping of rpm and boost to output %. Of course use a solid state relay as required by the manufacture.

Otherwise there is torqbyte meth controller.

Of course there is JB4, AEM, Snow...

What are you using meth for? Do you have adequate fueling but an aggressive tune that pulls timing because octane is low and you use 100% meth to reduce timing corrections? Do you lack adequate fueling capability and use 100% meth for fuel delivery more so than octane and cooling? Do you just want a little extra cooling and run a tiny amount of 50/50 on an already conservative tune picking up no power?

 

[Jesse DaBears]

Thanks for the great response and the time you put into that. Info in the links helped my overall understanding, didn’t think to read the reflex manual. For simplicity I want 50/50 WMI single stage, 1 pump/solenoid, no pwm. My hope is just retaining my current meth kit (AEM/Burger) to be used simply for controlling IAT’s. I don’t believe I’ll need to rely on meth for fueling (at least I don’t want to). I’m going to be full flex fuel with P2uned G35-1050, Visconti lpfp, eos manifold & 1050cc INJECTORS, target is 750-800whp at higher E% which I think I can achieve without too much fuss. Still in the process off receiving all parts for this build. I know some of these decisions are best made at my tuners recommendation, just don’t want to go into that conversation completely ignorant.

I’m installing everything myself, so I guess the biggest thing I’m searching for right now is a simplified theory of operation, ie:

If I wire the solenoid and pump to a reflex aux input-does that tie into can, and its drive input then configured/selected within ecutek software?

Is it as simple as setting an IAT threshold in ecutek to drive the solenoid on/off? Or would there be a better parameter to trigger meth for this type of application?

Looks like reflex is definitely designed to be meth friendly, in my mind it would be best to have everything controlled by ecutek, I just don’t have a broad understanding of how can, ecutek, Motiv reflex, and any potential aux systems communicate with each other.

Again, don’t want to side step my tuner, genuinely just trying to educate myself and really appreciate the help!

Not many tuners will have you run meth on reflex. If you want a basic setup just run an aem controller. If you want something more controllable use torquebyte (will need to make a fuel map).

 

[ope_sry]

Not many tuners will have you run meth on reflex. If you want a basic setup just run an aem controller. If you want something more controllable use torquebyte (will need to make a fuel map).

Thanks for that, simplicity is definitely preferred here, for my tuner’s sake if nothing else. I would have thought tuners would lean towards controlling it with reflex, shows what I know. Is there a reason that’s not preferred?

The AEM controller looks like the most straightforward option, typical over-thinking on my part. The tuner being able to adjust meth settings won’t be that important after thinking more about it. He’ll obviously see everything in the logs and I can just tweak controller settings. Will be renting a dyno for tuning- first time doing that and a bit worried about getting everything installed correctly from the start, my recurring nightmare: being sucked deeper and deeper into a paid by the hour shitshow where I’m scrambling with re-work on the rollers, the WiFi is going in and out, abysmal phone reception while troubleshooting with the tuner, I end up needing a part that was overlooked and it won’t ship for 2 weeks [shudder]

 

[KBGT]

Regarding your comment about tuning on the dyno and not being prepared...

Any decent b58 tuner should be able to easily remote tune your setup even with flex fuel, upgraded turbo, meth, and PI/reflex. They literally send you files and instructions for the Motiv Reflex Plus and a tune for EcuTek, BM3, MHD. You or your shop performs the install, then pull up Tuner Pro and verify rpm, map, ethanol, etc data. Once the Motiv Reflex is all good, you flash the DME tune in there. Then you can start the vehicle, check everything, and go get a log to start remote tuning.

Once you and your tuner get everything dialed in, that is the time to take it to the dyno to see what it makes. I just do not believe the dyno is the best place for the vehicle right after installing turbo, PI, Reflex, meth... Just a boost leak can cost you an hour or more on a dyno, ask me how I know. Imagine if there is a serious install issue, you will waste hours on the dyno and not make a pull or get tuned that day. Anyway good luck on the upgrades.

 

[ope_sry]

Regarding your comment about tuning on the dyno and not being prepared...

Any decent b58 tuner should be able to easily remote tune your setup even with flex fuel, upgraded turbo, meth, and PI/reflex. They literally send you files and instructions for the Motiv Reflex Plus and a tune for EcuTek, BM3, MHD. You or your shop performs the install, then pull up Tuner Pro and verify rpm, map, ethanol, etc data. Once the Motiv Reflex is all good, you flash the DME tune in there. Then you can start the vehicle, check everything, and go get a log to start remote tuning.

Once you and your tuner get everything dialed in, that is the time to take it to the dyno to see what it makes. I just do not believe the dyno is the best place for the vehicle right after installing turbo, PI, Reflex, meth... Just a boost leak can cost you an hour or more on a dyno, ask me how I know. Imagine if there is a serious install issue, you will waste hours on the dyno and not make a pull or get tuned that day. Anyway good luck on the upgrades.

Thanks for your insight. Working with a very reputable tuner, so I’m confident as far as getting a base map flashed after installing everything. But when it comes to logging (I’ve street logged/tuned on previous vehicles) I really don’t want collect logs on the street this time. I’m in Minnesota, it’s COLD right now. On current JB4/Jesse tune/e40/WMI I’m already spinning with 305/45/17 MT ET’s at highway speed. Im shooting for 800whp with this build and just can’t imagine taking multiple logs safely. Even in warm weather, logs are going to take me to 130+mph. Logging and tuning on the dyno to get me going, then logging actual 1/4 mile runs and adjusting as needed…just seems safer and better.

 

[KBGT]

If you are doing logs starting at 2-3K in fifth gear, and blowing off 305/45/17 ET street R at 3900 rpm (70 mph), you must be making way more power/torque than I am on E50. I have the the same radials and assuming the weather is slightly above freezing, it hooks in fifth gear. I don't have a dyno of E50, but pump gas dynos at 560 whp. I would estimate around 650 whp on E50.

I would still recommend dialing in the E10 pump gas side on the flex fuel tune on the street, as you should not be making over 600 whp on pump gas and that should hook on the ET street Rs. Then once you know everything is working properly head to the dyno for higher E tuning. Of course all this is my stupid opinion, do what you feel is best for your situation.

 

[zrk]

I use a standard AEM controller for my simple meth setup.

Simple pump, single chargepipe nozzle.

@Jesse DaBears and Mike (EOSpeed) use Torquebyte to controller direct port meth, it's highly unlikely you need that balls that size.

Standard controller is typically fine. Reflex is fine too.

 

[ope_sry]

I use a standard AEM controller for my simple meth setup.

Simple pump, single chargepipe nozzle.

@Jesse DaBears and Mike (EOSpeed) use Torquebyte to controller direct port meth, it's highly unlikely you need that balls that size.

Standard controller is typically fine. Reflex is fine too.

thanks, I picked up an aem controller. Glad it turned out to be so simple

 

[Got_M]

thanks, I picked up an aem controller. Glad it turned out to be so simple

Can you use the AEM pump with the direct port rail?

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