New pistons and rings sub 20k

[Morritse]

Can you even hone these plasma coated cylinder walls? Didn't think you could.

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[FnkDrSpok]

Toyota techs are gonna rebuild your BMW motor??!! Nooooo! Ask for either,a complete motor or at least an assembled short block!
Rebuilding a motor that needed piston and rings because of oil consumption?! Do you actually trust the Toyota techs to properly
Hone cylinder and set ring gap?! …ask for a
Crate motor or at least a short block which was assembled by BMW techs in Germany!

But you’d trust them to do an engine swap?

 

[Evolution]

Can you even hone these plasma coated cylinder walls? Didn't think you could.

Technically you can if there is enough material left. But there is really no way to see how much material is left so ya. I would rather not take a chance at something like that.

 

[lucky phil]

But you’d trust them to do an engine swap?

There's a world of difference between removal and install of a complete engine and rebuilding one believe me.

Phil

 

[lucky phil]

Technically you can if there is enough material left. But there is really no way to see how much material is left so ya. I would rather not take a chance at something like that.

Yes you can no problems I've done it many times with a flex hone but also with a normal hone. A flex hone will suffice as long as there is no cylinder scoring and it's just a case of some bore glazing.
The flex hone removes almost zero material and is commonly used as the last process after a bore and hone on a large machine. Sometimes referred to a plateaux honing.
Phil

 

[FnkDrSpok]

There's a world of difference between removal and install of a complete engine and rebuilding one believe me.

Phil

I’ve done a few B16-B18 swaps and one K swap into my 95 civic. I’m familiar with engine rebuilds and modding, what I’m not getting is what makes Toyota techs so bad to pull off a rebuild but be ok with a swap?

I feel they are equally as challenging, especially if you don’t know the removal order (Learned that the hard way). I haven’t done a full rebuild but I have changed out a block, water pump and crank.

 

[lucky phil]

I’ve done a few B16-B18 swaps and one K swap into my 95 civic. I’m familiar with engine rebuilds and modding, what I’m not getting is what makes Toyota techs so bad to pull off a rebuild but be ok with a swap?

I feel they are equally as challenging, especially if you don’t know the removal order (Learned that the hard way). I haven’t done a full rebuild but I have changed out a block, water pump and crank.

Because to do a rebuild well as opposed to pull an engine apart and put it back together again and it runs is way more involved than an engine swap. An engine swap is just component replacement same as a simple water pump or alternator replacement, pull component off bolt component on but on a larger scale. Engine rebuilding is all about the fine details and the average dealer tech does so little complicated nuanced mechanical stuff these days many many simply don't now know how and aren't practiced.
I've put together engines for world superbike the Isle of man TT road and race engines here. During the infamous Chevrolet Gen111 recall here that was a world wide event for piston slap and oil burning that involved replacing piston and ring packages on engines the dealer techs were so bad at it and causing so many issues they ended up setting up a dedicated rebuild facility here and just trusting the engine swap outs to the dealer techs. GM here realised rebuilds were beyond the scope of the modern dealer techs. That was 20 years ago. Fast fwd to 4 years ago with the recall on Focus Rs's for a "simple" head gasket replacement and thousands of owners got themselves a nightmare with oil leaks, mis timed engines repeated head removals etc. It was a disaster which I had predicted. I wouldn't trust the dealer techs with my car so I was organised to do it myself and forget the warranty but my wife decided she didn't want me doing this type of work anymore at my age and bought me a new RS for my birthday. We traded the early model that required the head gasket recall on a brand new one with a later build date that didn't. Cost us 10 grand but the best decision we ever made after seeing the nightmare the dealer techs created doing the recall.
Engine tech has changed quite a lot since 1995 as well. Modern engines don't use keyed cranks anymore for instance. Need to replace a simple timing cover crank seal? Once a simple task, now a very big job and involved Why? because modern engines are primarily designed for ease of assembly in the factory not future maintenance. So now with friction drive camshaft drive assemblies once you release the front pulley bolt tension to remove the pulley to change the seal then the whole valve timing is gone and needs to be re timed and that means vacuum pump off, HP fuel pump off, cam cover off, dedicated cam timing tooling installed and more. That's just one example there are many more. The modern engine is a wonderful thing when it's a good unit but a big deal when it comes to really invasive work. Dealer techs are also under the pump time wise from the dealership to just get it done and out the door which is also a big problem. The horror stories I've seen and unfortunately can't unsee.

Sorry just realised it's your car up for the rebuild. I feel for you I honestly do. My advice to you is either get a long block replacement under warranty or dump the car. Thats my experienced advice. Sorry man.

Phil

 

[zrk]

Because to do a rebuild well as opposed to pull an engine apart and put it back together again and it runs is way more involved than an engine swap. An engine swap is just component replacement same as a simple water pump or alternator replacement, pull component off bolt component on but on a larger scale. Engine rebuilding is all about the fine details and the average dealer tech does so little complicated nuanced mechanical stuff these days many many simply don't now know how and aren't practiced.
I've put together engines for world superbike the Isle of man TT road and race engines here. During the infamous Chevrolet Gen111 recall here that was a world wide event for piston slap and oil burning that involved replacing piston and ring packages on engines the dealer techs were so bad at it and causing so many issues they ended up setting up a dedicated rebuild facility here and just trusting the engine swap outs to the dealer techs. GM here realised rebuilds were beyond the scope of the modern dealer techs. That was 20 years ago. Fast fwd to 4 years ago with the recall on Focus Rs's for a "simple" head gasket replacement and thousands of owners got themselves a nightmare with oil leaks, mis timed engines repeated head removals etc. It was a disaster which I had predicted. I wouldn't trust the dealer techs with my car so I was organised to do it myself and forget the warranty but my wife decided she didn't want me doing this type of work anymore at my age and bought me a new RS for my birthday. We traded the early model that required the head gasket recall on a brand new one with a later build date that didn't. Cost us 10 grand but the best decision we ever made after seeing the nightmare the dealer techs created doing the recall.
Engine tech has changed quite a lot since 1995 as well. Modern engines don't use keyed cranks anymore for instance. Need to replace a simple timing cover crank seal? Once a simple task, now a very big job and involved Why? because modern engines are primarily designed for ease of assembly in the factory not future maintenance. So now with friction drive camshaft drive assemblies once you release the front pulley bolt tension to remove the pulley to change the seal then the whole valve timing is gone and needs to be re timed and that means vacuum pump off, HP fuel pump off, cam cover off, dedicated cam timing tooling installed and more. That's just one example there are many more. The modern engine is a wonderful thing when it's a good unit but a big deal when it comes to really invasive work. Dealer techs are also under the pump time wise from the dealership to just get it done and out the door which is also a big problem. The horror stories I've seen and unfortunately can't unsee.

Sorry just realised it's your car up for the rebuild. I feel for you I honestly do. My advice to you is either get a long block replacement under warranty or dump the car. Thats my experienced advice. Sorry man.

Phil

This was pretty hard to read, but yes. Swapping and engine or engine R&R is much MUCH easier than rebuilding an engine. You just take the old one you and put the new one in. There's nothing to it.

Rebuilding an engine, yeah, that's hard.

 

[FnkDrSpok]

Because to do a rebuild well as opposed to pull an engine apart and put it back together again and it runs is way more involved than an engine swap. An engine swap is just component replacement same as a simple water pump or alternator replacement, pull component off bolt component on but on a larger scale. Engine rebuilding is all about the fine details and the average dealer tech does so little complicated nuanced mechanical stuff these days many many simply don't now know how and aren't practiced.
I've put together engines for world superbike the Isle of man TT road and race engines here. During the infamous Chevrolet Gen111 recall here that was a world wide event for piston slap and oil burning that involved replacing piston and ring packages on engines the dealer techs were so bad at it and causing so many issues they ended up setting up a dedicated rebuild facility here and just trusting the engine swap outs to the dealer techs. GM here realised rebuilds were beyond the scope of the modern dealer techs. That was 20 years ago. Fast fwd to 4 years ago with the recall on Focus Rs's for a "simple" head gasket replacement and thousands of owners got themselves a nightmare with oil leaks, mis timed engines repeated head removals etc. It was a disaster which I had predicted. I wouldn't trust the dealer techs with my car so I was organised to do it myself and forget the warranty but my wife decided she didn't want me doing this type of work anymore at my age and bought me a new RS for my birthday. We traded the early model that required the head gasket recall on a brand new one with a later build date that didn't. Cost us 10 grand but the best decision we ever made after seeing the nightmare the dealer techs created doing the recall.
Engine tech has changed quite a lot since 1995 as well. Modern engines don't use keyed cranks anymore for instance. Need to replace a simple timing cover crank seal? Once a simple task, now a very big job and involved Why? because modern engines are primarily designed for ease of assembly in the factory not future maintenance. So now with friction drive camshaft drive assemblies once you release the front pulley bolt tension to remove the pulley to change the seal then the whole valve timing is gone and needs to be re timed and that means vacuum pump off, HP fuel pump off, cam cover off, dedicated cam timing tooling installed and more. That's just one example there are many more. The modern engine is a wonderful thing when it's a good unit but a big deal when it comes to really invasive work. Dealer techs are also under the pump time wise from the dealership to just get it done and out the door which is also a big problem. The horror stories I've seen and unfortunately can't unsee.

Sorry just realised it's your car up for the rebuild. I feel for you I honestly do. My advice to you is either get a long block replacement under warranty or dump the car. Thats my experienced advice. Sorry man.

Phil

Well, they are offering me a buyback or replacement. I'm requesting a new engine, hoping they just go with that option and call it even.

I'd rather them not do the block replacement due to the fact I'm waiting on Toyota to acquire the parts to even perform the job, that and a seal. The rest of the parts are in according to the dealership. So crossing fingers that this goes smoother than expected.

 

[Evolution]

Rebuilding an engine, yeah, that's hard.

Rebuilding an engine is not hard. Having people follow instructions is hard. I just passed over my 500th engine build so I might be a bit biased....

 

[3TMagnetMan]

If you need to rebuild the engine might as well build it stronger and better?

 

[Drnick]

IMPO, I’d take the buyback or replacement

 

[D3ad_Hand]

If you need to rebuild the engine might as well build it stronger and better?

Was gonna suggest the same thing.

 

[lucky phil]

IMPO, I’d take the buyback or replacement

Me to.

Phil

 

[3TMagnetMan]

Well, they are offering me a buyback or replacement. I'm requesting a new engine, hoping they just go with that option and call it even.

I'd rather them not do the block replacement due to the fact I'm waiting on Toyota to acquire the parts to even perform the job, that and a seal. The rest of the parts are in according to the dealership. So crossing fingers that this goes smoother than expected.

I would take the Buy Back or Replacement get a 2023 Model and move on once things get taken apart and put together its unknown if they did the job right or correctly and its more headaches than its worth. If it was me a 2023 Replacement ?

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