Loco38SUP
Well-Known Member
I measured last night and its a little over 12 inches of clearance. If you’re on the bigger taller side it might be tight. Its better to go with 56 inch versions.Awesome, I really like those ramps.
-RJM
Sponsored
I measured last night and its a little over 12 inches of clearance. If you’re on the bigger taller side it might be tight. Its better to go with 56 inch versions.Awesome, I really like those ramps.
Amazingly in-depth reply. Thanks, Robert.Here's the unvarnished truth about oil:
1. The manual recommends 0W20 oil, but states that you can top off with 1 quart of 5W30.
2. The dealer won't put anything in your car except the OEM 0W20.
3. HOWEVER, and this is the detail often missed in these 0W20 discussions: the US and Canada are the only territories that don't use 5W30, 0W40, or 5W40 oil for the B58TU motor in the Supra. Let me repeat that for total clarity: only in North America is it recommended to use such a lightweight 0W20 oil.
How can that be? Different emissions laws. Let's dig in...
All European vehicles with BMW B58TU engines recommend oil conformant with the BMW LongLife-01 (LL01) or BMW LongLife-04 (LL04) oil specifications. These specifications define certain viscosity, wear protection, SAPS, detergents and other additives that are engineered to be especially helpful to the metallurgy and function of a BMW motor. The BMW LL04 standard is slightly newer for vehicles with gasoline particulate filters (GPF) and LL01 for those without.
So why is America and, by extension Canada, so different from Europe? It's due to a United States law called Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE). According to CAFE, you average together the rated MPGs of all the vehicles in the manufacturer's lineup, and that number must be higher than whatever's stated by the law (I haven't looked it up). A less viscous oil, a lighter weight oil, like 0W20 directly improves gas mileage by 2-3 MPG. So manufacturers like Toyota can recommend an oil like 0W20 for their cars to squeak a few models across the line and improve their overall average relative to the law.
But there's another layer of complexity. Oil quality/standards in the US is mostly set by the American Petroleum Institute (API), while Europe has another body called ACEA. These two bodies take very different approaches to oil recommendations. API standards document 1509 describes their recommendations as "minimum specifications." In other words: the API oil recommendation is the bare minimum to get the job done, and may not be formulated to maximize detergent or wear protection properties. In contrast, ACEA sets more stringent initial standards and empowers car vendors to develop superseding vendor-specific standards (like LL01 and LL04) that may offer even greater protection in specific cases.
And there's a third layer of complexity. What may legally be called "full synthetic" in the United States is of a cheaper grade than what's legally permissible in Europe. Oils are are rated in "groups" called Group I, II, III, IV. Groups I - III are made from dinosaurs, and Group IV are truly synthetic lab-made oils. Higher group number often equates to better protection, as full synthetic oils are (on average) notably better than dinosaur oils these days. But here's the rub: in the US, you can apply the "full synthetic" label to Group III and IV, but many EU countries only allow that label to be applied to true Group IV man-engineered oils.
So let's recap some of the reasons why US carmakers might recommend a thinner oil.
Notice a trend? It's not about protecting the motor. It's all about legal fuckery and lobbying. And that's why the USA and Canada are the only countries that exclusively recommend the watery thin 0W20 oil weight versus something more robust as all B58TU cars receive in Europe.
- They're legally incentivized to do so in order to raise MPG for compliance with CAFE.
- US API oil standards are minimum spec, not recommended spec.
- US petroleum companies lobbied the US Gov't to impose less stringent technical restrictions on the "full synthetic" label.
SIDEBAR: That takes us to the "omg I'm burning oil" problems 2021 owners are facing. What did they do in the 2021 to get more power? Raised the boost curve of the turbo in the DME and slightly de-tuned compression ratio. You know what increases the chances of oil being burned in combustion? Thin oil. You know what also increases the chances? A turbo. You know what also increases the chances? More boost pressure. Is it any wonder why these 2021 cars seem to have oil burning issues, and the 2020s don't? It's because the 2021s doubled down on all the things that make a car more likely to burn oil as a natural effect of its operation.
So that takes us in the end to oil recommendations:
And that's one man's opinion on the garbage reasons why 0W20 is recommended for the Supra, and why we can all do better.
- If you want to comply with the Toyota USA warranty, your only choice is the 0W20 oil. Just remember that it's formulated for bare minimum protection. Daily commuting. Emissions prevention.
- If you want to step up your game and bring your Supra inline with its European B58 counterparts: 5W30 and 5W40 are pretty damn safe bets. Hell, there are even 5W50 oilsthat comply with BMW LL01 specifications! So what's good?
- Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W30 -- green bottle
- Amsoil ASLQT-EA Signature Series 100% Full Synthetic 5W30 -- says "100%" on the front label
- Amsoil XLOQT-EA 10W40
- High Performance Lubricants Super Car Engine Oil 5W40
//edit: just as a few examples to prove that other B58/S58 vehicles in Europe, oftentimes with more aggressive tuning or specs than the Supra, recommend better oils than 0W20. Straight from the owner manuals on these...
- Morgan Plus Six: 0W30
- 2021 BMW M4: up to 5W50 BMW LL-04
- 2019+ BMW Z4 (G29): up to 5W50 BMW LL-01
Thank you, Zack. And of course you can!Amazingly in-depth reply. Thanks, Robert.
Also, your signature. Maybe we move that to https://willmy062020plusecugotorussia.com
Most excellent! Thank you for the thorough explanation and response!Here's the unvarnished truth about oil:
1. The manual recommends 0W20 oil, but states that you can top off with 1 quart of 5W30.
2. The dealer won't put anything in your car except the OEM 0W20.
3. HOWEVER, and this is the detail often missed in these 0W20 discussions: the US and Canada are the only territories that don't use 5W30, 0W40, or 5W40 oil for the B58TU motor in the Supra. Let me repeat that for total clarity: only in North America is it recommended to use such a lightweight 0W20 oil.
How can that be? Different emissions laws. Let's dig in...
All European vehicles with BMW B58TU engines recommend oil conformant with the BMW LongLife-01 (LL01) or BMW LongLife-04 (LL04) oil specifications. These specifications define certain viscosity, wear protection, SAPS, detergents and other additives that are engineered to be especially helpful to the metallurgy and function of a BMW motor. The BMW LL04 standard is slightly newer for vehicles with gasoline particulate filters (GPF) and LL01 for those without.
So why is America and, by extension Canada, so different from Europe? It's due to a United States law called Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE). According to CAFE, you average together the rated MPGs of all the vehicles in the manufacturer's lineup, and that number must be higher than whatever's stated by the law (I haven't looked it up). A less viscous oil, a lighter weight oil, like 0W20 directly improves gas mileage by 2-3 MPG. So manufacturers like Toyota can recommend an oil like 0W20 for their cars to squeak a few models across the line and improve their overall average relative to the law.
But there's another layer of complexity. Oil quality/standards in the US is mostly set by the American Petroleum Institute (API), while Europe has another body called ACEA. These two bodies take very different approaches to oil recommendations. API standards document 1509 describes their recommendations as "minimum specifications." In other words: the API oil recommendation is the bare minimum to get the job done, and may not be formulated to maximize detergent or wear protection properties. In contrast, ACEA sets more stringent initial standards and empowers car vendors to develop superseding vendor-specific standards (like LL01 and LL04) that may offer even greater protection in specific cases.
And there's a third layer of complexity. What may legally be called "full synthetic" in the United States is of a cheaper grade than what's legally permissible in Europe. Oils are are rated in "groups" called Group I, II, III, IV. Groups I - III are made from dinosaurs, and Group IV are truly synthetic lab-made oils. Higher group number often equates to better protection, as full synthetic oils are (on average) notably better than dinosaur oils these days. But here's the rub: in the US, you can apply the "full synthetic" label to Group III and IV, but many EU countries only allow that label to be applied to true Group IV man-engineered oils.
So let's recap some of the reasons why US carmakers might recommend a thinner oil.
Notice a trend? It's not about protecting the motor. It's all about legal fuckery and lobbying. And that's why the USA and Canada are the only countries that exclusively recommend the watery thin 0W20 oil weight versus something more robust as all B58TU cars receive in Europe.
- They're legally incentivized to do so in order to raise MPG for compliance with CAFE.
- US API oil standards are minimum spec, not recommended spec.
- US petroleum companies lobbied the US Gov't to impose less stringent technical restrictions on the "full synthetic" label.
SIDEBAR: That takes us to the "omg I'm burning oil" problems 2021 owners are facing. What did they do in the 2021 to get more power? Raised the boost curve of the turbo in the DME and slightly de-tuned compression ratio. You know what increases the chances of oil being burned in combustion? Thin oil. You know what also increases the chances? A turbo. You know what also increases the chances? More boost pressure. Is it any wonder why these 2021 cars seem to have oil burning issues, and the 2020s don't? It's because the 2021s doubled down on all the things that make a car more likely to burn oil as a natural effect of its operation.
So that takes us in the end to oil recommendations:
And that's one man's opinion on the garbage reasons why 0W20 is recommended for the Supra, and why we can all do better.
- If you want to comply with the Toyota USA warranty, your only choice is the 0W20 oil. Just remember that it's formulated for bare minimum protection. Daily commuting. Emissions prevention.
- If you want to step up your game and bring your Supra inline with its European B58 counterparts: 5W30 and 5W40 are pretty damn safe bets. Hell, there are even 5W50 oilsthat comply with BMW LL01 specifications! So what's good?
- Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W30 -- green bottle
- Amsoil ASLQT-EA Signature Series 100% Full Synthetic 5W30 -- says "100%" on the front label
- Amsoil XLOQT-EA 10W40
- High Performance Lubricants Super Car Engine Oil 5W40
//edit: just as a few examples to prove that other B58/S58 vehicles in Europe, oftentimes with more aggressive tuning or specs than the Supra, recommend better oils than 0W20. Straight from the owner manuals on these...
- Morgan Plus Six: 0W30
- 2021 BMW M4: up to 5W50 BMW LL-04
- 2019+ BMW Z4 (G29): up to 5W50 BMW LL-01
Absolutely love this level of geekiness and detail. But I am curious why you like the Signature Series line over the European LS from Amsoil?Here's the unvarnished truth about oil:
1. The manual recommends 0W20 oil, but states that you can top off with 1 quart of 5W30.
2. The dealer won't put anything in your car except the OEM 0W20.
3. HOWEVER, and this is the detail often missed in these 0W20 discussions: the US and Canada are the only territories that don't use 5W30, 0W40, or 5W40 oil for the B58TU motor in the Supra. Let me repeat that for total clarity: only in North America is it recommended to use such a lightweight 0W20 oil.
How can that be? Different emissions laws. Let's dig in...
All European vehicles with BMW B58TU engines recommend oil conformant with the BMW LongLife-01 (LL01) or BMW LongLife-04 (LL04) oil specifications. These specifications define certain viscosity, wear protection, SAPS, detergents and other additives that are engineered to be especially helpful to the metallurgy and function of a BMW motor. The BMW LL04 standard is slightly newer for vehicles with gasoline particulate filters (GPF) and LL01 for those without.
So why is America and, by extension Canada, so different from Europe? It's due to a United States law called Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE). According to CAFE, you average together the rated MPGs of all the vehicles in the manufacturer's lineup, and that number must be higher than whatever's stated by the law (I haven't looked it up). A less viscous oil, a lighter weight oil, like 0W20 directly improves gas mileage by 2-3 MPG. So manufacturers like Toyota can recommend an oil like 0W20 for their cars to squeak a few models across the line and improve their overall average relative to the law.
But there's another layer of complexity. Oil quality/standards in the US is mostly set by the American Petroleum Institute (API), while Europe has another body called ACEA. These two bodies take very different approaches to oil recommendations. API standards document 1509 describes their recommendations as "minimum specifications." In other words: the API oil recommendation is the bare minimum to get the job done, and may not be formulated to maximize detergent or wear protection properties. In contrast, ACEA sets more stringent initial standards and empowers car vendors to develop superseding vendor-specific standards (like LL01 and LL04) that may offer even greater protection in specific cases.
And there's a third layer of complexity. What may legally be called "full synthetic" in the United States is of a cheaper grade than what's legally permissible in Europe. Oils are are rated in "groups" called Group I, II, III, IV. Groups I - III are made from dinosaurs, and Group IV are truly synthetic lab-made oils. Higher group number often equates to better protection, as full synthetic oils are (on average) notably better than dinosaur oils these days. But here's the rub: in the US, you can apply the "full synthetic" label to Group III and IV, but many EU countries only allow that label to be applied to true Group IV man-engineered oils.
So let's recap some of the reasons why US carmakers might recommend a thinner oil.
Notice a trend? It's not about protecting the motor. It's all about legal fuckery and lobbying. And that's why the USA and Canada are the only countries that exclusively recommend the watery thin 0W20 oil weight versus something more robust as all B58TU cars receive in Europe.
- They're legally incentivized to do so in order to raise MPG for compliance with CAFE.
- US API oil standards are minimum spec, not recommended spec.
- US petroleum companies lobbied the US Gov't to impose less stringent technical restrictions on the "full synthetic" label.
SIDEBAR: That takes us to the "omg I'm burning oil" problems 2021 owners are facing. What did they do in the 2021 to get more power? Raised the boost curve of the turbo in the DME and slightly de-tuned compression ratio. You know what increases the chances of oil being burned in combustion? Thin oil. You know what also increases the chances? A turbo. You know what also increases the chances? More boost pressure. Is it any wonder why these 2021 cars seem to have oil burning issues, and the 2020s don't? It's because the 2021s doubled down on all the things that make a car more likely to burn oil as a natural effect of its operation.
So that takes us in the end to oil recommendations:
And that's one man's opinion on the garbage reasons why 0W20 is recommended for the Supra, and why we can all do better.
- If you want to comply with the Toyota USA warranty, your only choice is the 0W20 oil. Just remember that it's formulated for bare minimum protection. Daily commuting. Emissions prevention.
- If you want to step up your game and bring your Supra inline with its European B58 counterparts: 5W30 and 5W40 are pretty damn safe bets. Hell, there are even 5W50 oilsthat comply with BMW LL01 specifications! So what's good?
- Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W30 -- green bottle
- Amsoil ASLQT-EA Signature Series 100% Full Synthetic 5W30 -- says "100%" on the front label
- Amsoil XLOQT-EA 10W40
- High Performance Lubricants Super Car Engine Oil 5W40
//edit: just as a few examples to prove that other B58/S58 vehicles in Europe, oftentimes with more aggressive tuning or specs than the Supra, recommend better oils than 0W20. Straight from the owner manuals on these...
- Morgan Plus Six: 0W30
- 2021 BMW M4: up to 5W50 BMW LL-04
- 2019+ BMW Z4 (G29): up to 5W50 BMW LL-01
awesome post. But man, you got too much time on your hands! LolHere's the unvarnished truth about oil:
1. The manual recommends 0W20 oil, but states that you can top off with 1 quart of 5W30.
2. The dealer won't put anything in your car except the OEM 0W20.
3. HOWEVER, and this is the detail often missed in these 0W20 discussions: the US and Canada are the only territories that don't use 5W30, 0W40, or 5W40 oil for the B58TU motor in the Supra. Let me repeat that for total clarity: only in North America is it recommended to use such a lightweight 0W20 oil.
How can that be? Different emissions laws. Let's dig in...
All European vehicles with BMW B58TU engines recommend oil conformant with the BMW LongLife-01 (LL01) or BMW LongLife-04 (LL04) oil specifications. These specifications define certain viscosity, wear protection, SAPS, detergents and other additives that are engineered to be especially helpful to the metallurgy and function of a BMW motor. The BMW LL04 standard is slightly newer for vehicles with gasoline particulate filters (GPF) and LL01 for those without.
So why is America and, by extension Canada, so different from Europe? It's due to a United States law called Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE). According to CAFE, you average together the rated MPGs of all the vehicles in the manufacturer's lineup, and that number must be higher than whatever's stated by the law (I haven't looked it up). A less viscous oil, a lighter weight oil, like 0W20 directly improves gas mileage by 2-3 MPG. So manufacturers like Toyota can recommend an oil like 0W20 for their cars to squeak a few models across the line and improve their overall average relative to the law.
But there's another layer of complexity. Oil quality/standards in the US is mostly set by the American Petroleum Institute (API), while Europe has another body called ACEA. These two bodies take very different approaches to oil recommendations. API standards document 1509 describes their recommendations as "minimum specifications." In other words: the API oil recommendation is the bare minimum to get the job done, and may not be formulated to maximize detergent or wear protection properties. In contrast, ACEA sets more stringent initial standards and empowers car vendors to develop superseding vendor-specific standards (like LL01 and LL04) that may offer even greater protection in specific cases.
And there's a third layer of complexity. What may legally be called "full synthetic" in the United States is of a cheaper grade than what's legally permissible in Europe. Oils are are rated in "groups" called Group I, II, III, IV. Groups I - III are made from dinosaurs, and Group IV are truly synthetic lab-made oils. Higher group number often equates to better protection, as full synthetic oils are (on average) notably better than dinosaur oils these days. But here's the rub: in the US, you can apply the "full synthetic" label to Group III and IV, but many EU countries only allow that label to be applied to true Group IV man-engineered oils.
So let's recap some of the reasons why US carmakers might recommend a thinner oil.
Notice a trend? It's not about protecting the motor. It's all about legal fuckery and lobbying. And that's why the USA and Canada are the only countries that exclusively recommend the watery thin 0W20 oil weight versus something more robust as all B58TU cars receive in Europe.
- They're legally incentivized to do so in order to raise MPG for compliance with CAFE.
- US API oil standards are minimum spec, not recommended spec.
- US petroleum companies lobbied the US Gov't to impose less stringent technical restrictions on the "full synthetic" label.
SIDEBAR: That takes us to the "omg I'm burning oil" problems 2021 owners are facing. What did they do in the 2021 to get more power? Raised the boost curve of the turbo in the DME and slightly de-tuned compression ratio. You know what increases the chances of oil being burned in combustion? Thin oil. You know what also increases the chances? A turbo. You know what also increases the chances? More boost pressure. Is it any wonder why these 2021 cars seem to have oil burning issues, and the 2020s don't? It's because the 2021s doubled down on all the things that make a car more likely to burn oil as a natural effect of its operation.
So that takes us in the end to oil recommendations:
And that's one man's opinion on the garbage reasons why 0W20 is recommended for the Supra, and why we can all do better.
- If you want to comply with the Toyota USA warranty, your only choice is the 0W20 oil. Just remember that it's formulated for bare minimum protection. Daily commuting. Emissions prevention.
- If you want to step up your game and bring your Supra inline with its European B58 counterparts: 5W30 and 5W40 are pretty damn safe bets. Hell, there are even 5W50 oilsthat comply with BMW LL01 specifications! So what's good?
- Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W30 -- green bottle
- Amsoil ASLQT-EA Signature Series 100% Full Synthetic 5W30 -- says "100%" on the front label
- Amsoil XLOQT-EA 10W40
- High Performance Lubricants Super Car Engine Oil 5W40
//edit: just as a few examples to prove that other B58/S58 vehicles in Europe, oftentimes with more aggressive tuning or specs than the Supra, recommend better oils than 0W20. Straight from the owner manuals on these...
- Morgan Plus Six: 0W30
- 2021 BMW M4: up to 5W50 BMW LL-04
- 2019+ BMW Z4 (G29): up to 5W50 BMW LL-01
+1 on thisAbsolutely love this level of geekiness and detail. But I am curious why you like the Signature Series line over the European LS from Amsoil?
Amsoil does have a Euro LS in 5w-30. That’s what I’ll be changing to eventually. Reason I go with the Euro is because it’s formulated for turbochargers. Used it in my Abarth for that reason too. Signature Series is absolutely great oil so you really can’t go wrong either way.+1 on this
About to do my first oil change and the local Toyota dealers says they've had quarts of 0w-20 on order for months. I can get Amsoil locally, so plan on going with that instead but had planned on going with the Euro LS due to other posts I've read here. Based on what's been posted here, it looks like 5w-30 Signature Series is the ticket.
Yeah I've been using the Signature Series in my Hondas for years, but read here people suggest the Euro LS for the Supra. Honestly I have no idea what the difference is between the two.Amsoil does have a Euro LS in 5w-30. That’s what I’ll be changing to eventually. Reason I go with the Euro is because it’s formulated for turbochargers. Used it in my Abarth for that reason too. Signature Series is absolutely great oil so you really can’t go wrong either way.
I don´t know from where you get that 0W20 is only recommended in North America.Here's the unvarnished truth about oil:
1. The manual recommends 0W20 oil, but states that you can top off with 1 quart of 5W30.
2. The dealer won't put anything in your car except the OEM 0W20.
3. Let me repeat that for total clarity: only in North America is it recommended to use such a lightweight 0W20 oil.
And that's why the USA and Canada are the only countries that exclusively recommend the watery thin 0W20 oil weight versus something more robust as all B58TU cars receive in Europe.