diss7
Member
- First Name
- Mike
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2018
- Threads
- 1
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 47
- Location
- New Zealand
- Car(s)
- A4, GT86, 997, TE27
- Thread starter
- #1
Hi all,
Given the prospect of ordering a supra sight unseen, I’ve decided to do a quick analysis on how it will be as a street car, when compared to other cars I’ve done a lot of street and/or track kms in. In particular, I’m comparing it to my Porsche (997 C2S) and my previous ISF from a couple of years ago. These are the cars I most rate with regards to enjoyable street car, that is also fun on the track.
At this stage, trying to determine it’s track parameters is difficult. The factors I would assess are not yet available, and this is not as important to me. I say this as I found both the 911 and ISF sufficiently fun on the track. And equally so, my 86 when standard. On more than one occasion I kept up and passed cars with twice the power of my GT86 when it was standard. Knowing that the same engineering team that developed that car, have developed the Supra; is in itself all I need to know to be satisfied it is going to be a great track car.
It’s on the street – where I’ll drive the car 90% of the time – is where I want to focus my attention. My GT86 I HATED on the street. And I can quantify why – torque to weight. This, in my opinion; is what makes a sports car on the street. Of course, handling, practicality, aesthetics are considerations; but if the torque to weight is too low, it’s a slug.
I can make this assessment, as the weight of the Supra is basically known. The engine is as near as confirmed as being the B58; and this engine is already in other cars. Though there are different iterations of this motor, and possible the Supra maybe in a new iteration itself. In either case, we can use the current known values of the B58.
What the picture shows, is the Supra will have 221 lb / ft of torque per tonne. This means it will drive very similarly on the street to both the ISF and Porsche. In fact, it will drive better; as those two motors are NA and make their peak torque value much higher in the RPM band than the B58 will – because of its turbo. The Supra will drive (power delivery and acceleration wise) very similar to a 2017 BMW M2, which has a very similar engine and power delivery, and the car itself being about 1 passenger heavier.
I would encourage anyone thinking of buying a Supra sight unseen, to go and drive a BMW M2. That’s the power and delivery you’re getting in the Supra.
This is based on the Supra having the lower spec B58; which based on some of the comments made by Tada-san, is what I think it will have. If it has a higher output B58; it will be a rocket ship.
Am posting this as I feel the Supra (like the 86) is already getting some hate from the Play station generation. They want a F&F car with 500hp,like the car on the youtube videos they watch. Like the car they drive in Gran Turismo.
You also get a lot of people who are what I call “highway pullers”. They are obsessed with power levels that are only good for 100-300km/h straight line acceleration runs on the interstates. Most of them are 20 somethings, that wouldn’t dare turn off the driving nannies, as they’ve learnt to drive with them. They're not drivers.
These people look at peak power, and that’s it.
Their wants / needs are not going to be aligned to this car. It's not what it's about.
The 700hp MK4 cars on youtube have done the supra name as much harm as they have done good. 99% of the people that rave about these cars have never built them. They've never lived with them day to day. Some have, and to them I give massive credit. I have done both and understand the sacrifices these take to build and use; it's really not all that it's cracked up to be.
More power does not equal more fun. The GT86 proved that in spades. Where it fell short (for me) was having enough power to be enjoyable day to day. You can see how a stock GT86 compares to my current daily, a Audi diesel wagon.
350hp in a 1500kg car, that has been designed around low centre of gravity and ultimately handling, will be a very fast car, particularly on the track. AND you will have a mechanical warranty. I think it will hold its own with Porsches, and I say that as a Porsche owner / lover.
I’m excited.
Given the prospect of ordering a supra sight unseen, I’ve decided to do a quick analysis on how it will be as a street car, when compared to other cars I’ve done a lot of street and/or track kms in. In particular, I’m comparing it to my Porsche (997 C2S) and my previous ISF from a couple of years ago. These are the cars I most rate with regards to enjoyable street car, that is also fun on the track.
At this stage, trying to determine it’s track parameters is difficult. The factors I would assess are not yet available, and this is not as important to me. I say this as I found both the 911 and ISF sufficiently fun on the track. And equally so, my 86 when standard. On more than one occasion I kept up and passed cars with twice the power of my GT86 when it was standard. Knowing that the same engineering team that developed that car, have developed the Supra; is in itself all I need to know to be satisfied it is going to be a great track car.
It’s on the street – where I’ll drive the car 90% of the time – is where I want to focus my attention. My GT86 I HATED on the street. And I can quantify why – torque to weight. This, in my opinion; is what makes a sports car on the street. Of course, handling, practicality, aesthetics are considerations; but if the torque to weight is too low, it’s a slug.
I can make this assessment, as the weight of the Supra is basically known. The engine is as near as confirmed as being the B58; and this engine is already in other cars. Though there are different iterations of this motor, and possible the Supra maybe in a new iteration itself. In either case, we can use the current known values of the B58.
What the picture shows, is the Supra will have 221 lb / ft of torque per tonne. This means it will drive very similarly on the street to both the ISF and Porsche. In fact, it will drive better; as those two motors are NA and make their peak torque value much higher in the RPM band than the B58 will – because of its turbo. The Supra will drive (power delivery and acceleration wise) very similar to a 2017 BMW M2, which has a very similar engine and power delivery, and the car itself being about 1 passenger heavier.
I would encourage anyone thinking of buying a Supra sight unseen, to go and drive a BMW M2. That’s the power and delivery you’re getting in the Supra.
This is based on the Supra having the lower spec B58; which based on some of the comments made by Tada-san, is what I think it will have. If it has a higher output B58; it will be a rocket ship.
Am posting this as I feel the Supra (like the 86) is already getting some hate from the Play station generation. They want a F&F car with 500hp,like the car on the youtube videos they watch. Like the car they drive in Gran Turismo.
You also get a lot of people who are what I call “highway pullers”. They are obsessed with power levels that are only good for 100-300km/h straight line acceleration runs on the interstates. Most of them are 20 somethings, that wouldn’t dare turn off the driving nannies, as they’ve learnt to drive with them. They're not drivers.
These people look at peak power, and that’s it.
Their wants / needs are not going to be aligned to this car. It's not what it's about.
The 700hp MK4 cars on youtube have done the supra name as much harm as they have done good. 99% of the people that rave about these cars have never built them. They've never lived with them day to day. Some have, and to them I give massive credit. I have done both and understand the sacrifices these take to build and use; it's really not all that it's cracked up to be.
More power does not equal more fun. The GT86 proved that in spades. Where it fell short (for me) was having enough power to be enjoyable day to day. You can see how a stock GT86 compares to my current daily, a Audi diesel wagon.
350hp in a 1500kg car, that has been designed around low centre of gravity and ultimately handling, will be a very fast car, particularly on the track. AND you will have a mechanical warranty. I think it will hold its own with Porsches, and I say that as a Porsche owner / lover.
I’m excited.
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Other than now assuming it means an account is fake.
