The 2021 News Really Bums Me Out / Buyer's Remorse

[kissmyrs]

I think most of the power increase comes from lower heat at the turbo and better flow through the individual runners as opposed to the single turbo mount on the B58C. Obviously the pistons play a part, etc. but ultimately it's just that it can handle a bit more boost while remaining as reliable as it's predecessor. At least that's my take from the tech details posted earlier. So technically no, mod for mod the newer engine will likely be slightly better all the way up.

And the suspension stuff is adding front strut braces and perhaps a slight spring upgrade. I wouldn't expect more than that or they would have said something more than mentioning the braces in the release.

Important to note however, that tuning the first engine to beyond the capabilities of the transmission is trivial - so you'll still have that very significant "firewall" on either version... you'll just hit it even sooner on the MY21's

I heard they retuned the dampers and some other stuff. The suspension stuff gets me lol

So Im guessing they went short runners vs long for the extra Hp —as the tq is negligible. I think they will run about the same mod for mod. Either way I never keep a car over 2 years

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[Reppunkamui]

I think most of the power increase comes from lower heat at the turbo and better flow through the individual runners as opposed to the single turbo mount on the B58C. Obviously the pistons play a part, etc. but ultimately it's just that it can handle a bit more boost while remaining as reliable as it's predecessor. At least that's my take from the tech details posted earlier. So technically no, mod for mod the newer engine will likely be slightly better all the way up.

It is a bit of both I think. The B58d has a new cooling system, steel exhaust manifold, higher pressure fuel injection system and lower compression ratio, this should allow the boost to be dialed up for stock without increasing the risk of knocking. So hardware changes allowing a higher tuned stock car?

 

[digicidal]

I heard they retuned the dampers and some other stuff. The suspension stuff gets me lol

So Im guessing they went short runners vs long for the extra Hp —as the tq is negligible. I think they will run about the same mod for mod. Either way I never keep a car over 2 years

Don't get an RC-F then... the Supra's suspension is far better whether considering comfort or cornering. Apples to oranges of course, but still. The difference is going from 2 combined runners (integrated into head and turbo mount) to 6 individual with a "proper" exhaust manifold to separate turbo mount. As well as the other aspects already discussed obviously. Basically ours has the collector as an internal part of the head... the other does not.

It is a bit of both I think. The new engine has a new cooling system, steel exhaust manifold, higher pressure fuel injection system and lower compression ratio, this should allow the boost to be dialed up for stock without increasing the risk of knocking. So hardware changes allowing a higher tuned stock car?

Yeah that's my understanding as well.

 

[Axix23]

random thought. fast forward 20 years, this Supra will be recognized as this generations legendary super car. Maybe a 7 year run on this chassis? I can see people swapping 2025 motors into 2020 cars, 2024 into 2022 cars, etc. I recently examined at all mounting points/ brackets (above and below) for this engine and tranny... a motor swap does not look too difficult. If mounting points don't change it all looks fairly simple to do, much easier than the swap I did for my old B18c EG hatch. All the ECU/DME compatibility between models shouldn't change too much. Maybe Toyota understands where it wants to see this car 20 years from now and is preparing it for it. This is an exceptional platform/chassis to last decades, either through motor swaps or just routine maintenance. Keep you 2020's guys and don't take the depreciation hit. I intend on keeping mine for generations.

I just got rid of my eg. Good comparison. lol

 

[mk3ownz]

so in 2022, is the supra gonna get the s55 engine from the m cars?

 

[Axix23]

so in 2022, is the supra gonna get the s55 engine from the m cars?

Instead of messing with the motor, they could of addressed the god awful colors on the wheels of the 3.0 prem editions, non emblem floor mats, steering wheel, and more carbon fiber accents, and etc... At least they have something on the blank front calipers now.

 

[jtsang25]

Instead of messing with the motor, they could of addressed the god awful colors on the wheels of the 3.0 prem editions, non emblem floor mats, steering wheel, and more carbon fiber accents, and etc... At least they have something on the blank front calipers now.

They'll address these each proceeding year lol. Next year logo on mats $200 increase.

 

[Axix23]

They'll address these each proceeding year lol. Next year logo on mats $200 increase.

haha. We can always just buy the new editions at the local parts store.. lol

 

[jtsang25]

haha. We can always just buy the new editions at the local parts store.. lol

Sad thing is I probably will give them whatever they ask lol

 

[kissmyrs]

Don't get an RC-F then... the Supra's suspension is far better whether considering comfort or cornering. Apples to oranges of course, but still. The difference is going from 2 combined runners (integrated into head and turbo mount) to 6 individual with a "proper" exhaust manifold to separate turbo mount. As well as the other aspects already discussed obviously. Basically ours has the collector as an internal part of the head... the other does not.


Yeah that's my understanding as well.

ugh, thats for sure going to make more power mod for mod/tune. Its going to have better tuning potential, allow for nice flat tq curve... its going to walk a 2020 everytime all things being equal on top end, everytime...... I feel a bit like the s197 guys when the coyote hit. There is no way I would have bought a 2020 knowing these changes were coming

 

[harddrivin1le]

Everyone is making a big deal out of nothing. A downpipe and a tune is going to make the same power as the current used B58 in the supra. they are basically reverting to the same setup as prior B58s. its not a new engine. Its a different head and lower compression pistons.

Neither is better or worse than the other. The power increase is a tune change, and just more boost up top than the current stock tune. Torque is virtually the same. And to my knowledge, they are only making 1000 of them. there arent any benefits to reap from the "A91". Same ECU, same turbo, same bottom end. Just a head change with the 6 port manifold thats on the rest of the B58s.

ALL 2021 6 cylinder Supras will use the BMW M340i engine, including the 6 port head and manifold. But that's not the extent of the changes. That engine also includes a "split path" cooling system, thermal management module, new fuel pump with large capacity fuel system and a host of other upgrades.

 

[harddrivin1le]

The only thing about the MY21 Supra that would have bummed me out is if they replaced all the fake vents with functional ones. That would have pissed me off.

Better cooling? BFD, cooling is no issue now.

More horses? So what? With my JB4, I smoked a 2020 Z4 two days ago. I’m not tracking it, so the other upgrades don’t mean a whole lot to me personally. I get it why a minority of drivers are pissed tho.

Caliper decals? Seriously?

I’m having fun with 2020, and in the end that’s all that matters. Life be too short.

The 2021 Supra will use the BMW M340i engine, complete with the 6 (vs. 2) external port heads, matching exhaust manifold and 10.2:1 pistons (permits more boost). But that's hardly the extend of the changes. That engines cooling system is a "split" system that includes extensive upgrades in order to cope with that engine's added output (at least 50 SAE Net HP). The fuel system is also of larger capacity (including pump) for improved flow.

You're kidding yourself if you think the 2020 Supra engine is any match for the 2021 (M340i engine).

See images below (Direct From BMW Tech Training Manuals).

 

[harddrivin1le]

Its just a tune update that makes the power no? Whats the big deal! Mod for mod they will run the same... did I miss something?

You've missed a lot. The 2021 Supra uses the BMW M340i, which contains a host of design upgrades. Chief among them are the six (vs. 2) exhaust port heads and matching manifold. The engine also uses a higher capacity fuel system, a much more effective "split" cooling system, a lower compression ratio that permits higher boost levels...

So extensive are the changes that referring to the engines as "two different engines" isn't much of a stretch.

Source: BMW Tech Training Manual

 

[kissmyrs]

You've missed a lot. The 2021 Supra uses the BMW M340i, which contains a host of design upgrades. Chief among them are the six (vs. 2) exhaust port heads and matching manifold. The engine also uses a higher capacity fuel system, a much more effective "split" cooling system, a lower compression ratio that permits higher boost levels...

So extensive are the changes that referring to the engines as "two different engines" isn't much of a stretch.

Source: BMW Tech Training Manual

ouufffff....That IS a massive upgrade. This is a punch in the balls. I wonder what this is going to do for resale value. This motor is going to pants the current one pretty hard

 

[thedude]

I don't know whether to try and sell now and go a different way or just accept the fact that I own the worst version of the MK5.

I think it's especially bad to do this to a brand new car after the first year. It isn't as if we can reap the benefits of the 21's with a tune. A downpipe and tune is going to take them a lot further. It is also going to steer the aftermarket away from us, 5-6 years on B58D's vs 1 on the B58C.

It's just by far the most severe buyer's remorse I've ever had. And for it to be over a car I loved as a car guy is even more brutal.

Are there any positives for current owners here that I'm missing?

I don’t know. The YouTube analysis I’ve watched says the 2020 makes power and torque at lower RPMs so it may feel more responsive.

They also said the changes to the suspension are supposed to make the performance more accessible but has the potential to upset the successful balance that was struck in the 2020. Other things like the steering changes could be good or bad. Again, we won’t know.

I’m in a weird position since my buyback money should be coming around end of Feb. I think I’ll be rebuying a 2020 and not trying to hold out until June (rumored arrival of the 2021). If anything, it should be even easier to strike a bargain deal on a 2020 - what dealer isn’t going to want to clear out his inventory prior to the new and “improved” model?

One aspect I’m not super happy about is if this will mean lots of parts that only made it onto this short run of cars. I owned a Celica All-Trac Turbo and that thing killed me on parts costs. Everything was special and different from regular Celicas, was special order low-volume, and insanely expensive. This could be the case for the 2020 down the road in the future.

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