Wrinkled Brains Needed: Meth Injection

[Suwopra]

Hey everyone, looking to see if anyone has run into this issue before and what was the cause/their fix for it, as I can be a bit of a smooth brain sometimes. I am currently running the Titan Motorsports/Snow Performance meth Injection kit and while it sprays, there seems to be some sort of delay to when it needs to spray (showing up in the logs and during testing firing the system). I've turned down the min psi to account for the lag but seems to not have done much. I've checked the installation (as far as I am aware) and nothing seems out of the ordinary (though I could've certainly missed something). The check valve is as close to the nozzles as possible and arrows are all pointing the RIGHT way. I'm sure there is going to be some sort of lag regardless but in this case, it might be too long of a lag and is getting in the way of fine-tuning the car. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are. TIA!

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[zrk]

How are your short term fuel trims?

 

[KBGT]

What nozzle size and how many? The 4 is 250 ml/min and 6 is 375 ml/min I think. Full meth or 50/50? So many questions, how are you determining the delay, IAT fuel trim?

 

[zrk]

The 4 is 250 ml/min and 6 is 375 ml/min I think

What even does this mean?

 

[KBGT]

What even does this mean?

The OP stated that he is working with the Titan/Snow system. I have that system too. It came with two nozzles. To differentiate, as the look identical, there is a number stamped on them.

Maybe I'm wrong, educate me.

 

[racebuild]

Don’t know this kit too well but does the check valve they use have a break through pressure? How far away is the solenoid placed from the nozzle?

 

[Suwopra]

How are your short term fuel trims?

Hey Zrk. Ah well, I'm still a noob at reading logs (Jesse looks at 99.9% of them) but from what I can see from a run, at WOT the fuel trims hit mid 40s for a bit before quickly dipping down to mid 30s or so as I am going up in the curve. From what I understand, the fuel trims shouldn't be high from the get-go if meth is spraying. I can shoot over a log on datazap if it's easier lol.

 

[Suwopra]

What nozzle size and how many? The 4 is 250 ml/min and 6 is 375 ml/min I think. Full meth or 50/50? So many questions, how are you determining the delay, IAT fuel trim?

Two #6s via a t-connector thru a charge pipe, 50/50. I don't believe nozzles are the problem as I have test-fired the system with and without the nozzles on (disconnected the tube right before the t-connector but after the check-valve) and got the same results. From the moment I inject compressed air (during tests) into the boost reference sensor or line, I can hear the pump groaning and then a spray a second or so later. Trims are high from the get-go in the logs and then quickly taper off (as it finally sprays I assume).

 

[Suwopra]

Don’t know this kit too well but does the check valve they use have a break through pressure? How far away is the solenoid placed from the nozzle?

I'm seeing a 7 psi crack pressure (if this is what you were referring to). I'm referencing their video so where ever they have it installed is where mine is currently at ().

 

[zrk]

Two #6s via a t-connector thru a charge pipe, 50/50. I don't believe nozzles are the problem as I have test-fired the system with and without the nozzles on (disconnected the tube right before the t-connector but after the check-valve) and got the same results. From the moment I inject compressed air (during tests) into the boost reference sensor or line, I can hear the pump groaning and then a spray a second or so later. Trims are high from the get-go in the logs and then quickly taper off (as it finally sprays I assume).

30 is way high on trims. You either need less ethanol or more meth.

 

[KBGT]

When I look at my STFT its close to unity (1), then as water/meth is introduced it drops to .95-.90 . I would assume this means the closed loop (PID) lambda control is pulling 5-10% fuel to achieve commanded lambda. I am running one 4 gph nozzle, you are running 3x the volume (6+6=12).

 

[Tsuki8]

When I look at my STFT its close to unity (1), then as water/meth is introduced it drops to .95-.90 . I would assume this means the closed loop (PID) lambda control is pulling 5-10% fuel to achieve commanded lambda. I am running one 4 gph nozzle, you are running 3x the volume (6+6=12).

I read youve moved onto the CTS turbo kit.
I've ended up where you were BM3 Stage 2 93 stock turbo with water/meth.
I have the 4 gph nozzle installed and trying to setup the right range of spray.
What was your min (start) and max (full)?
What were your STFTs like?

I tried 10psi -> 22psi and im not seeing any iat temp drop.
Then 2psi -> 22psi and barely seeing 4f iat drop.
STFT is 1 heading down to .87 (13% fuel pulled out?).

 

[KBGT]

@Tsuki8 the min and max PSI values are kind of a tradeoff. You want sufficient injection early enough to prevent knock and resulting ignition retard. I would try setting the W/M controller to 10 min and 12 max for on/off type control and datalog. Look to see if you get any knock or timing corrections before and after the stft drops from 1.0 ish. This information tells if the W/M is needed earlier and/or if more octane is needed during W/M injection (meaning more Methanol/Ethanol less water). You should only see a couple deg drop in IAT temp before it starts rising from turbo energy. Number 4 nozzle gave me about the same STFT as you are seeing approx 0.9 at min.

BTW I have moved on from water/meth and experimented with pure methanol and E95. I currently run E95 with the #6 nozzle to add enough octane for 25 PSI and 13.5 deg without timing corrections on 92 octane pump gas. I am seriously looking at adding a 5 gal fuel cell for the W/M system.

Edit: the simple answer is set the PSI to 5 min 10 max and that should give you some W/M early and full by 10, but increases usage. If you never get knock or timing corrections down low there is no need to apply W/M until boost builds more. Dataloging is really the key to getting it set properly.

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