Spied: Toyota benchmarking Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) for new Supra?

[solidsamir]

Fortunately/unfortunately the significantly cheaper 718 Cayman s (with same tires) put down the same time as the last gen GT4, which puts the supra in the same ballpark for price and performance. Both a good and bad thing depending your point of view.

Ah finally a company that has enough sense to tap into that incredibly large and profitable Porsche/Toyota cross shopping segment of car buyers. Thank goodness. /sarcasm

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[A70TTR]

Fortunately/unfortunately the significantly cheaper 718 Cayman s (with same tires) put down the same time as the last gen GT4, which puts the supra in the same ballpark for price and performance. Both a good and bad thing depending your point of view.

I was actually not aware of that car, but the supra is still around 2-3 seconds faster than that around the Ring.

Cayman GT4: 7:42
718 Cayman S: 7:46


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And since everyone is asking, the car is going to be 65k with options limited (meaning most come standard) on the Spec-B. at least those are the latest figures... there is a reason the price went up and it's both good and bad depending on your viewpoint, but I cant talk about it at the moment.

I have heard little to nothing about the Spec-A other than it exists, and that may be because it is going to be more of a Japan/Europe model? No idea.

 

[HKz]

same price as the current top trim Z4.. not sure how I feel about that as there are so many other cool cars around $60 K that actually come with a stick... guess we'll see how the performance turns out to be.

 

[SupraMaybe]

65k for the spec-B!!!! This car must be a serious performer. Lots of exciting cars near the price range (Vette, M3/M4, Giulia Quadrifoglio, Cayman S, AMG C63, etc.) and some of these come with V8 and almost 500hp. I was originally expecting an M2 type of car, but now I am wondering how the spec-B will match against 2009 Nissan GT-R as it will be about 600lb lighter. Interestingly enough, I think 2009 Nissan GT-R's MSRP was just under 70k when it was released.

 

[Sammy82]

I was actually not aware of that car, but the supra is still around 2-3 seconds faster than that around the Ring.

Cayman GT4: 7:42
718 Cayman S: 7:46


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And since everyone is asking, the car is going to be 65k with options limited (meaning most come standard) on the Spec-B. at least those are the latest figures... there is a reason the price went up and it's both good and bad depending on your viewpoint, but I cant talk about it at the moment.

I have heard little to nothing about the Spec-A other than it exists, and that may be because it is going to be more of a Japan/Europe model? No idea.

We are very lucky to have this guy on here! I always knew a manual would be likely. Basically it was going to be a gt86 with more power initially so a manual must have been on the cards. I still highly doubt they would call it a Supra though.

 

[MA617M]

. there is a reason the price went up and it's both good and bad depending on your viewpoint, but I cant talk about it at the moment.

Price should go up if power goes up accordingly... and lap times plummet

Or if it goes GT-R hunting

 

[Spilner]

If the manual is the reason of the delay it is well worth it. Everything that has been quoted recently from Toyoda and Tomoyama has been aimed directly at the fan base to assure us they are car guys, they get it, and this car is the real deal.

(Someone needs to track down pics of Tomoyama’s 600hp Supra)

https://blog.caranddriver.com/toyot...reet-cars-including-supra-and-new-lexus-gs-f/
Speaking of Tomoyama, it says here his daily driver is a MK4

 

[PREDATOR786]

The car hasn't been released yet but I'm sure guys are already contemplating getting the Spec A and dropping in a 2JZ...no sh!t!

 

[Spilner]

Price should go up if power goes up accordingly... and lap times plummet

Or if it goes GT-R hunting

the weight is expected to be around 12-1500kg, i am sure that will be beneficial in some way

 

[bogglo]

The car hasn't been released yet but I'm sure guys are already contemplating getting the Spec A and dropping in a 2JZ...no sh!t!

lmao

 

[Spilner]

The car hasn't been released yet but I'm sure guys are already contemplating getting the Spec A and dropping in a 2JZ...no sh!t!

Hell, or swapping the B48 for a 4AG!

 

[SupraMaybe]

Let's hope they like what they find.

They just let me down by dropping the 5 speed in the Tacoma that I was going to get, so now I'm just waiting again.



These numbers are still FAR off from the GTR. It will be interesting to see how it turns out though, definitely seems like a strong performer.

The sad thing about those 'Ring numbers (GT4 - 7:42) is seeing the new Honda Civic Type R a couple down on the list at 7:43.8.

If the new Supra's priority is performance, then hopefully it comes close to the old GT-R's numbers (2009 - 7:29). I think Alfa QV is at 7:32 with auto and Camaro ZL1 is at 7:29.

 

[SupraMaybe]

Another interesting comparison would be against Toyota's own Lexus RC-F. The RC-F starts at 64k and comes with a 467hp V8. It is exciting to think about what kind of performance the spec-B will have when all the money that goes to the brand tax and unnecessary luxury features of a Lexus is instead used to make a lighter and performance focused car.

 

[A70TTR]

A lot of folks are praising Akio and Gazoo, but I would caution against that somewhat. While Gazoo's boss is an awesome guy, and Tada is a director within GR, they (GR/Akio) are actually the ones complicating things significantly and driving the price up.

Due to their interference, departments under Akio want to impress him and leverage this car to do so. The TL;DR is politics and power trips. Basically, these departments want to add a glass roof, a 20-way adjustable seat, and a full entertainment system with sub to the car (250lbs worth of crap), while Tada-san wants to keep this car pure and awesome. It doesnt help that the US dealer and marketing network wants these additions as well .


So, we can likely thank Akio for his input on performance and what he would like to see, but ultimately with that comes these massive downsides too.


From what was discussed, if Tada isnt successful in keeping the status quo then there may be both a tech pack version (all of that stuff above) of the car and a more track oriented version with lighter weight components than even the 3100lb base car is at currently. The downside is that that's why it's now projected at $65k, a full 10k over what it was supposed to be for damn near the same performance levels.

The longer the delays, the more likely that more nonsense will be added to the car that does not benefit those wanting performance and simplicity.

 

[Craigy]

I was actually not aware of that car, but the supra is still around 2-3 seconds faster than that around the Ring.

Cayman GT4: 7:42
718 Cayman S: 7:46

And since everyone is asking, the car is going to be 65k with options limited (meaning most come standard) on the Spec-B. at least those are the latest figures... there is a reason the price went up and it's both good and bad depending on your viewpoint, but I cant talk about it at the moment.

I have heard little to nothing about the Spec-A other than it exists, and that may be because it is going to be more of a Japan/Europe model? No idea.

Really hope you're 1) right about that pricetag, should mean that Supra will be a big performer, and 2) wrong about being just 2-3 seconds faster than a 718 S around the ring. Caymans are great cars for sure, but not exactly fast, at least not today. Hopefully that IMO slow ~7:40 ring time is what the old car did before Toyoda kicked the development team in the ass.

These numbers are still FAR off from the GTR. It will be interesting to see how it turns out though, definitely seems like a strong performer.

The sad thing about those 'Ring numbers (GT4 - 7:42) is seeing the new Honda Civic Type R a couple down on the list at 7:43.8.

From the start this car was never going to beat the GTR. It should, however, at least compete with it for market space, and matching the 2009 car's numbers should certainly be achievable at this price point given that we're a decade into the future now.

+1 on that ring time being disappointing, Civic Type R is a prime comparison. Ring time obviously isn't everything but it's a good barometer, and a 300hp front drive Civic for $35k shouldn't be matching performance of a $65k Supra, or even nipping at its heels for that matter.

If the new Supra's priority is performance, then hopefully it comes close to the old GT-R's numbers (2009 - 7:29). I think Alfa QV is at 7:32 with auto and Camaro ZL1 is at 7:29.

Old GTR did a 7:26.4. The new ZL1 did a 7:16. I don't think we'll see times as low as ZL1 but the old GTR's time seems like a realistic goal/expectation for a factory effort, especially considering 10 years' newer tire tech.

Another interesting comparison would be against Toyota's own Lexus RC-F. The RC-F starts at 64k and comes with a 467hp V8. It is exciting to think about what kind of performance the spec-B will have when all the money that goes to the brand tax and unnecessary luxury features of a Lexus is instead used to make a lighter and performance focused car.

Right. Without the brand premium and for the same money, Supra should blow that car out of the water. Supra could be as much as 1,000lbs lighter than RCF, so that was never really a question, but again for the same money, Supra should be a serious sports car in the Corvette grand sport/ Porsche 911 S realm.

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