Spied: Toyota benchmarking Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997) for new Supra?

[A70TTR]

well, I dont think we've even seen the maximum the car is capable of around the track, but that's where it was at as of late.

It can only get better I suppose.

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[solidsamir]

A lot of folks are praising Akio and Gazoo, but I would caution against that somewhat. While Gazoo's boss is an awesome guy, and Tada is a director within GR, they are actually the ones complicating things significantly and driving the price up.

Due to their interference, departments under Akio want to impress him and leverage this car to do so. The TL;DR is politics and power trips. Basically, these departments want to add a glass roof, a 20-way adjustable seat, and a full entertainment system with sub to the car (250lbs worth of crap), while Tada-san wants to keep this car pure and awesome. It doesnt help that the US dealer and marketing network wants these additions as well .


So, we can likely thank Akio for his input on performance and what he would like to see, but ultimately with that comes these massive downsides too.


From what was discussed, if Tada isnt successful in keeping the status quo then there may be both a tech pack version (all of that stuff above) of the car and a more track oriented version with lighter weight components than even the 3100lb base car is at currently. The downside is that that's why it's now projected at $65k, a full 10k over what it was supposed to be for damn near the same performance levels.

The longer the delays, the more likely that more nonsense will be added to the car that does not benefit those wanting performance and simplicity.

Really glad you said this because I actually was disappointed to hear they were making adjustments to the vehicle after Akio’s comments.

In my opinion they are fucking things up, unless they can deliver a better car without greatly inflating the price then I think their efforts will be fruitless.

I hope someone with some sense can refocus the teams on building a reasonable sports car with lots of potential instead of a super car with no future or market.

Let the enthusiasts modify their cars to their hearts content; it doesn’t need every bell and whistle out of the factory.

 

[A70TTR]

yeah, it basically comes down to how much leverage Tada has, and thankfully he has a TON of allies in the old guard back in Japan. All of the companies GR stole budget, resources, and bragging rights from in other words.

It's just such an odd dynamic though because Akio alone is cool, GR when left to its own devices is cool, but once you get them all together along with their individual departments and everyone wants a piece of the pie, then no one wins.

 

[solidsamir]

yeah, it basically comes down to how much leverage Tada has, and thankfully he has a TON of allies in the old guard back in Japan. All of the companies GR stole budget, resources, and bragging rights from in other words.

It's just such an odd dynamic though because Akio alone is cool, GR when left to its own devices is cool, but once you get them all together along with their individual departments and everyone wants a piece of the pie, then no one wins.

So are you saying Tada wants to keep the car as is but Akio and GR want more performance?

 

[2JZ-No-Sh*t]

The car hasn't been released yet but I'm sure guys are already contemplating getting the Spec A and dropping in a 2JZ...no sh!t!

That was my plan since rumors of a 4 banger started floating around.

 

[A70TTR]

So are you saying Tada wants to keep the car as is but Akio and GR want more performance?

Tada doesnt mind adding more performance if hes given the budget to do so, but at this point GR has its own idea of what that is and at the same time theyre trying to meet Akio's demands... then you throw in the stupid non performance stuff and we start to have a real convoluted problem in the development cycle.

It's a nightmare for the engineers.

Basically Akio got in the car was like, it's not mkiv TT enough, and Tada goes "well, I did the best I could with my resources..." So, Akio goes to GR (his pet project) and says "hey, Tada needs help making this thing faster and more exciting," and GR goes "no problem" (because they have a damn near endless budget and they want to impress Akio), but then other people around Akio are like we can help make this better too! Problem is, car was already 95% complete and the plan was to add more power and test reliability and performance to prepare for production.

Now, it's back to the drawing board to a degree, which is what doomed the LF-A to being horrendously expensive; they remade that car 3x before someone was like holy shit we're cutting you off. Is it awesome? hell yeah. Was it competitive? Not for the price it wasnt... The new NSX is another example of bad management on this front.


If Tada is able to keep the car how he wants it we could still see a very competitive car for 55k with nearly all options. If he loses the battle, the car may perform better, but that pricetag wont stay the same; it will climb and climb. It's just that $65k is currently what the car will cost with some of these proposed changes.

You dont wait until someone has finished engineering something and just come in with multiple other teams and say we want all of this other stuff. This has been a recipe for disaster since the beginning of time...

 

[Supraman]

While I'm bummed that Tokyo was a bust. I'm excited to hear a manual is now being tested. Regarding the project of this car, Toyota is so big and they've been thru this before working on the 86 project with another manufacturer, I'm sure dealing with BMW was 1 thing but now you're dealing with many last minute changes in house. If this car was 95% done they should've all known what to expect as I'm sure it was all planned ahead of time. If they are going back to the drawing board, get this right!
Toyota Engineers right now:

Marketing Team: Akio wants more performance; lets add 20-way adjustable seats + a glass roof + a serious sound system that will make the car feel and sound fast + increase the price

 

[solidsamir]

Tada doesnt mind adding more performance if hes given the budget to do so, but at this point GR has its own idea of what that is and at the same time theyre trying to meet Akio's demands... then you throw in the stupid non performance stuff and we start to have a real convoluted problem in the development cycle.

It's a nightmare for the engineers.

Basically Akio got in the car was like, it's not mkiv TT enough, and Tada goes "well, I did the best I could with my resources..." So, Akio goes to GR (his pet project) and says "hey, Tada needs help making this thing faster and more exciting," and GR goes "no problem" (because they have a damn near endless budget and they want to impress Akio), but then other people around Akio are like we can help make this better too! Problem is, car was already 95% complete and the plan was to add more power and test reliability and performance to prepare for production.

Now, it's back to the drawing board to a degree, which is what doomed the LF-A to being horrendously expensive; they remade that car 3x before someone was like holy shit we're cutting you off. Is it awesome? hell yeah. Was it competitive? Not for the price it wasnt... The new NSX is another example of bad management on this front.


If Tada is able to keep the car how he wants it we could still see a very competitive car for 55k with nearly all options. If he loses the battle, the car may perform better, but that pricetag wont stay the same; it will climb and climb. It's just that $65k is currently what the car will cost with some of these proposed changes.

You dont wait until someone has finished engineering something and just come in with multiple other teams and say we want all of this other stuff. This has been a recipe for disaster since the beginning of time...

Thank you for your input. I really hope they make minor adjustments and release the car without huge changes...otherwise I’m buying a Landcruiser

 

[jm6k]

You dont wait until someone has finished engineering something and just come in with multiple other teams and say we want all of this other stuff. This has been a recipe for disaster since the beginning of time...

What, that's not efficient? We do this all the time where I work.

 

[A70TTR]

While I'm bummed that Tokyo was a bust. I'm excited to hear a manual is now being tested. Regarding the project of this car, Toyota is so big and they've been thru this before working on the 86 project with another manufacturer, I'm sure dealing with BMW was 1 thing but now you're dealing with many last minute changes in house. If this car was 95% done they should've all known what to expect as I'm sure it was all planned ahead of time. If they are going back to the drawing board, get this right!
Toyota Engineers right now:

Marketing Team: Akio wants more performance; lets add 20-way adjustable seats + a glass roof + a serious sound system that will make the car feel and sound fast + increase the price

Exactly haha, it's bullshit.

What, that's not efficient? We do this all the time where I work.

we do it here where I am as well; many projects end up halfassed and overbudget

 

[adprokid]

Good to know that GR is stepping in to fix the mistakes of the minivans boy.

 

[A70TTR]

That's a pretty degrading statement, especially seeing as how Tada is a director within the GR organization.

 

[bogglo]

I just hope they keep in mind that the longer it take the more they have to go back to the drawing board because the competition are also improving with every refresh and redesign. I hope they are able to meet the 2019 deadline. While we wait on Toyota am looking forward to what Lexus have in stock for the RCF refresh and the LCF.
A perfect NAIAS would be MKV concept with an LCF debut and maybe the RCF refresh(hopefully a significant bump in power and not just suspension changes with the exhaust note of the LC ) [BATTLE OF THE COUPES].

 

[Craigy]

Thank you for your input. I really hope they make minor adjustments and release the car without huge changes...otherwise I’m buying a Landcruiser

Really punishing Toyota there by buying a more expensive vehicle from them.

 

[A70TTR]

I just hope they keep in mind that the longer it take the more they have to go back to the drawing board because the competition are also improving with every refresh and redesign. I hope they are able to meet the 2019 deadline. While we wait on Toyota am looking forward to what Lexus have in stock for the RCF refresh and the LCF.
A perfect NAIAS would be MKV concept with an LCF debut and maybe the RCF refresh(hopefully a significant bump in power and not just suspension changes with the exhaust note of the LC ) [BATTLE OF THE COUPES].

Yeah, you're dealing with BMW pushback and now the GR/Akio pushback on a team of engineers that work on and off for GR already.

So aside from adding a manual (which was done before GR even came in), what else can they improve upon or further more without driving up the price and being late to market?

Car is already super light, is putting out near 400hp from a 3L, and was laying down better numbers by the day.

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