Reviews are in for 2020 Supra MKV preproduction car

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mrarm

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Many forget one thing in France and Some European country the 370z nismo price display 45k € price sold 33k € tax co2 + 12k € total 45k €.
Short if Toyota wants to hope to sell his car tax co2 new z4 8k € he should sell 45k € -8k € = 37k for me the car will not sell in France.
Did you really think that Toyota will sell that car at 37k€ for same or less power than 370z?
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Many forget one thing in France and Some European country the 370z nismo price display 45k € price sold 33k € tax co2 + 12k € total 45k €.
Short if Toyota wants to hope to sell his car tax co2 new z4 8k € he should sell 45k € -8k € = 37k for me the car will not sell in France.
Did you really think that Toyota will sell that car at 37k€ for same or less power than 370z?
The MKV will probably be on the higher-end of the price spectrum for it's class....as a base model. In other words, say a top trim Nismo Z is $45k in the US, the base MKV will be starting at $45k. I don't even want to know what the top trim is going to cost to be honest....anything more than $55k for a top trim model MKV is not only out of the target audiences price range, it makes many other higher performing cars more attractive for less money. Tada wants this car affordable to the masses....who exactly is he referring to??? The people who Tada thinks will buy the MKV, do not have the money to buy it....and the people who have the money to buy the MKV are not attracted by the price-to-performance ratio. BMW even pushed the limits on the M2 on what they can offer from a performance standpoint to keep it affordable, and that was only successful because it really is a bargain for a luxury high-performance car. The MKV Supra is aimed at costing close to the M2 pricetag with (what seems like) less-than-M2 performance???
 

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The MKV will probably be on the higher-end of the price spectrum for it's class....as a base model. In other words, say a top trim Nismo Z is $45k in the US, the base MKV will be starting at $45k. I don't even want to know what the top trim is going to cost to be honest....anything more than $55k for a top trim model MKV is not only out of the target audiences price range, it makes many other higher performing cars more attractive for less money. Tada wants this car affordable to the masses....who exactly is he referring to??? The people who Tada thinks will buy the MKV, do not have the money to buy it....and the people who have the money to buy the MKV are not attracted by the price-to-performance ratio. BMW even pushed the limits on the M2 on what they can offer from a performance standpoint to keep it affordable, and that was only successful because it really is a bargain for a luxury high-performance car. The MKV Supra is aimed at costing close to the M2 pricetag with (what seems like) less-than-M2 performance???
I think we can all agree that this car won’t be a bench mark of any performance metric and won’t offer any segment leading spec. Besides the name ‘supra’ ... I don’t see anything positive about this car that’ll make a person that knows nothing about A Supra to say.. hey.. let’s take a look at this car. Maybe it’ll look nice and people will buy it for its looks? Yet to be determined ... let’s see.

Even with super car killer performance Nissan had trouble moving GTRs.. Acura is having trouble moving NSXs with hyper car killer performance. Now imagine a BMW with a Toyota nameplate that has lackluster performance.. lol
 

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I think we can all agree that this car won’t be a bench mark of any performance metric and won’t offer any segment leading spec. Besides the name ‘supra’ ... I don’t see anything positive about this car that’ll make a person that knows nothing about A Supra to say.. hey.. let’s take a look at this car. Maybe it’ll look nice and people will buy it for its looks? Yet to be determined ... let’s see.

Even with super car killer performance Nissan had trouble moving GTRs.. Acura is having trouble moving NSXs with hyper car killer performance. Now imagine a BMW with a Toyota nameplate that has lackluster performance.. lol
Let's not forget that the mk4 hid its perf well with these original specs it was revealed after modification.
I hope that behind these reasonable performances is a monster.
 

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Let's not forget that the mk4 hid its perf well with these original specs it was revealed after modification.
I hope that behind these reasonable performances is a monster.
But "You can modify it to make more power, but it will void your warranty" isn't a great sales pitch
 

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Since I hear this alot.... (under promise & over deliver)

. You can’t over deliver a non promising spec to begin with .

So that whole theory of say low # and we go above... “Toyota”- if your above is still a figure that is comparatively mediocre you are still failing at delivering.

Keep this in mind Toyota
 

Jdmuscle

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Since I hear this alot.... (under promise & over deliver)

. You can’t over deliver a non promising spec to begin with .

So that whole theory of say low # and we go above... “Toyota”- if your above is still a figure that is comparatively mediocre you are still failing at delivering.

Keep this in mind Toyota
Lol. On point. Toyota is staying over 300. So if we offer 350 people should be rejoicing. Toyota is so wrong at so many levels with this car.. there isn’t a point to even discuss performance aspects of this car.

Hoping it looks nice once they remove that silly camo.
 

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The MKV will probably be on the higher-end of the price spectrum for it's class....as a base model. In other words, say a top trim Nismo Z is $45k in the US, the base MKV will be starting at $45k. I don't even want to know what the top trim is going to cost to be honest....anything more than $55k for a top trim model MKV is not only out of the target audiences price range, it makes many other higher performing cars more attractive for less money. Tada wants this car affordable to the masses....who exactly is he referring to??? The people who Tada thinks will buy the MKV, do not have the money to buy it....and the people who have the money to buy the MKV are not attracted by the price-to-performance ratio. BMW even pushed the limits on the M2 on what they can offer from a performance standpoint to keep it affordable, and that was only successful because it really is a bargain for a luxury high-performance car. The MKV Supra is aimed at costing close to the M2 pricetag with (what seems like) less-than-M2 performance???
The Z4 is roughly in the same price point as the M2 and supposedly can perform better and handle better. We know absolutely nothing about the Supra with the unorthodox reveal outside of speculation but I would imagine that the cars at Madrid like the A110, Cayman, M2 and RCf were benchmarks to show who the Supra was chasing after.

I would love the Top Trim Supra to be at 54k max, but I highly doubt the execs at TMC USA aren't going to cash in on the name and reap the benefits. That's before the dealerships add the Supra Tax on top of it. 54k beats a cayman base before options and a Cayman S is a different market entirely.

Lol. On point. Toyota is staying over 300. So if we offer 350 people should be rejoicing. Toyota is so wrong at so many levels with this car.. there isn’t a point to even discuss performance aspects of this car.

Hoping it looks nice once they remove that silly camo.
It's a thin line because while I'm sure everyone would love to see a 400HP sports car come from Toyota, I don't recall them making such a car for the masses or wanting to make a highway monster. So while 350 HP in a light car is cool, they don't have a Porsche Prestige or the power to command loyalty on demand. And when your American competitors can craft 700HP beasts at 80k with great handling, you just have to eat the cost. Can't win I'm afraid.
 

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I think we can all agree that this car won’t be a bench mark of any performance metric and won’t offer any segment leading spec. Besides the name ‘supra’ ... I don’t see anything positive about this car that’ll make a person that knows nothing about A Supra to say.. hey.. let’s take a look at this car. Maybe it’ll look nice and people will buy it for its looks? Yet to be determined ... let’s see.

Even with super car killer performance Nissan had trouble moving GTRs.. Acura is having trouble moving NSXs with hyper car killer performance. Now imagine a BMW with a Toyota nameplate that has lackluster performance.. lol
Precisely....Nissan knew that they had to go big with the GTR to even spark peoples interest, let alone get them to sell. It was a "go big or go home" move, and people (like myself) who sit for months thinking "should I buy it" have a much less difficult time pulling the trigger on a $100k purchase because there is so much a car like the GTR offers....it's justifiable. The same cannot be said about the MKV unfortunately, because how can someone justify paying what is rumored to be the entry cost of $45k on a 4cyl with performance way less than a V8 domestic muscle car costing the same???
 
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Jdmuscle

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Precisely....the Nissan knew that they had to go big with the GTR to even get them to sell. It was a "go big or go home" move, and people (like myself) who sit for months thinking "should I buy it" have a much less difficult time pulling the trigger on a $100k purchase because there is so much a car like the GTR offers....it's justifiable. The same cannot be said about the MKV unfortunately, because how can someone justify paying what is rumored to be the entry cost of $45k on a 4cyl with performance way less than a V8 domestic muscle car costing the same???
At 45k to 50k range (4cyl spec Zupra) we have the following...

1) 2019 Mustang GT with 460hp and a 10spd auto that can go sub 4 seconds 0-60. Add performance pack 2 and it’ll shame anything BMW has built for Toyota.
2) 2018 Camaro SS 1LE with 455hp and an amazing handling pkg. Sorry.. I don’t see this level of performance from the BMW built Toyota either (basing it on the driving reviews)
3) 2019 Nissan 370Z at 45k with 350hp in the Nismo trim. Oldest of the bunch.. so let’s see how Nissan counters.
Then you have a host of other non direct competitors such as Q50 Redsport, new genesis 3 series fighter with a proper manual gearbox to name a few.

Besides... oh look a Zupra factor.. there is nothing going for this car.

Handling ... meh
Road comfort... good
Power... meh
Looks (outside)... fake vents
Looks (inside)... BMW

Why did you (Toyota) order such a pathetic spec’d car from BMW?
 

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At 45k to 50k range (4cyl spec Zupra) we have the following...

1) 2019 Mustang GT with 460hp and a 10spd auto that can go sub 4 seconds 0-60. Add performance pack 2 and it’ll shame anything BMW has built for Toyota.
2) 2018 Camaro SS 1LE with 455hp and an amazing handling pkg. Sorry.. I don’t see this level of performance from the BMW built Toyota either (basing it on the driving reviews)
3) 2019 Nissan 370Z at 45k with 350hp in the Nismo trim. Oldest of the bunch.. so let’s see how Nissan counters.
Then you have a host of other non direct competitors such as Q50 Redsport, new genesis 3 series fighter with a proper manual gearbox to name a few.

Besides... oh look a Zupra factor.. there is nothing going for this car.

Handling ... meh
Road comfort... good
Power... meh
Looks (outside)... fake vents
Looks (inside)... BMW

Why did you (Toyota) order such a pathetic spec’d car from BMW?
JDMuscle, remember a time when Toyota made badass cars because they could and didn't care about sales (like Lexus did with the LFA)??? Good time indeed:

r_t_1998_3.jpg


Interesting thing I found out from a Supra owner not long ago....the MKIV's pre-production cars used for magazine reviews back in the day actually produced more HP than the production cars. I don't get what Toyota did then with their pre-production cars that they felt made no sense to do now???
 

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That's what a guarantee. :popcorn:
I'm never go to a car dealerships to repair my car I do it myself. :headbang:
In other words you're a unicorn that Toyota's marketing department will know represents about .1 to 1% of their potential market for this car. Not a percentage that is going to drive Toyota's design and engineering decisions. The rest of us want performance (to differing levels) AND reliability out of the box.
 
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I would love the Top Trim Supra to be at 54k max, but I highly doubt the execs at TMC USA aren't going to cash in on the name and reap the benefits. That's before the dealerships add the Supra Tax on top of it.... So while 350 HP in a light car is cool, they don't have a Porsche Prestige or the power to command loyalty on demand. And when your American competitors can craft 700HP beasts at 80k with great handling, you just have to eat the cost. Can't win I'm afraid.
You're sort of contradicting yourself here... I really doubt whether there are enough potential buyers out there who value the Supra legacy enough for Toyota to "cash in" on it in any significant way. Sure there will be some ADM'ing by dealers in the first few months the car is out, but that will take care of the "must-have-a-Supra" folks willing to pay a premium pretty quickly. As you say in the second part of your post, if Toyota builds a Supra premium into the MSRP itself, their sales will suffer badly as they will be betting on a legacy/brand appeal that doesn't really exist for the large majority of the market.
 

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In other words you're a total unicorn that Toyota's marketing department will know represents about .01% of their potential market for this car. Not a percentage that is going to drive Toyota's design and engineering decisions. The rest of us want performance (to differing levels) AND reliability out of the box.
I also want reliability.
I also want performance.
But coming from a country or having performance costs very expensive. I prefer a powerful engine flange even at 100hp 200N.m. if it can avoid me to pay 12k € for stupid tax.
As half of the people who buy the vehicle I will not let it go.
I do not care about the spec show that are there to meet stupid polution standards if i know that the engine and the hunt is made for 500ch and 600N.m i buy, if not buy the old one.
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